Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful

From	Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid>
Subject	Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
References	(11 earlier) <2013Apr1.185857@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <8_-dnZu0KLmlP8fMnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@supernews.com> <2013Apr2.173556@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <ybqdnZ5WwLXY0sbMnZ2dnUVZ_sSdnZ2d@supernews.com> <kjg31p$pdg$1@online.de>
Message-ID	<kpqdnaXPyvrUbcbMnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@supernews.com> (permalink)
Date	2013-04-03 04:03 -0500

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Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> wrote:
> Andrew Haley wrote:
>> And besides, the whole idea of using return stack hacks in order to
>> save a few nanoseconds should have died circa 1980.  IMO, YMMV, etc.
> 
> The mentality behind that is wrong.  I have a Chinese Android
> tablet.  There are about two programs which are fun to use: QQ and
> Gforth.  All others are sluggish, as it is a single core with just
> 1GHz, and most Android developers seem to develop for 1.5GHz Cortex
> A15 quadcores (the same mentality is on PCs: If you don't have a
> 3GHz+ Core i7, forget it).  And the 1GHz ARM performs about as good
> as a 200MHz Pentium, so it's not a fast GHz.  QQ is a chat program
> for Chinese users, and it's no suprise that it is tuned for Chinese
> hardware - but even though it runs fine, it takes ages to start.
> Gforth runs fast, and starts in an instance (you have to wait for
> the silly Android animation, though, and on my Galaxy Note II, quite
> a number of programs start in that time) because I do care about
> performance, and the reason to buy a low-end device is to make sure
> that I notice problems.  I do benchmark my code and find the
> bottlenecks, and eliminate them.

Right, but you can't make code go fast through a bunch of tiny micro-
optimizations that obscure the code.  All you'll do in most cases is
introduce bugs and not noticeably improve the performance.  The
problem with Android tablets, as it is with a lot of Java code, is a
ton of pointless indirections and delegations, combined with little
attention being paid to memory allocation.  Get rid of yet another
DatabaseAdapterAdapterProxyFactory -- that's where the real gain is.

> And for CATCH/THROW being fast enough: There was a CATCH in my net2o
> code, which was in the per-packet path (not even a corresponding
> THROW when there was no error case).  I had to remove it;
> fortunately, taking it out of the per-packet path was doable.  It
> had a measurable impact. 

Anything is measurable.

> The thing is now tuned so that using gforth instead of gforth-fast
> only costs 10% of the total performance - i.e. the bottleneck is now
> cryptography and Linux.  That's how it should be, because net2o is
> really a low-overhead protocol, apart from the cryptography (which
> is low overhead compared to others).

Sure, that makes perfect sense.  I'm not disagreeing with you: there
will always be the 10% of code that takes 90% of the time, and that's
where the effort is worthwhile.

Andrew.

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Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-19 15:06 +0000
  Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-19 22:27 +0100
    Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-20 03:49 -0500
      Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-20 11:09 +0000
        Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-20 10:25 -0500
          Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-20 18:08 +0100
            Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-20 13:04 -0500
              Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-20 20:12 +0100
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-21 04:39 -0500
            Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-20 19:22 +0000
          Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-30 17:35 +0000
            Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-31 08:51 -0500
              Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-02 15:50 +0000
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-02 16:16 -0500
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-03 11:57 +0000
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-03 10:25 -0500
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-03 16:45 +0000
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-03 15:12 -0500
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-04 15:29 +0000
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-05 09:11 -0500
        Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-20 10:27 -0700
    Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-20 12:03 +0000
      Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-20 18:47 +0100
        Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-30 16:40 +0000
          Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-01 02:12 +0200
            Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-01 16:58 +0000
              Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-02 04:20 +0200
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-04-01 16:39 -1000
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-02 14:15 +0000
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-02 21:12 +0200
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-04 13:58 +0000
              Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-02 04:17 -0500
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-02 15:35 +0000
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-02 16:36 -0500
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-03 04:10 +0200
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-03 04:03 -0500
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-03 21:14 +0200
            Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-03 16:13 +0000
              Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-03 11:54 -0500
              Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-03 22:24 +0200
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-04-04 11:53 +0000
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-04 18:13 +0200
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-04 15:53 +0000
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-04 22:11 +0200
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-04-04 21:35 +0100
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-04 23:06 +0200
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-04-05 10:57 +0000
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-05 14:47 +0000
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-05 14:28 +0000
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-06 03:35 +0200
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-04-08 23:50 -0400
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-04-08 23:49 -0400
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2013-04-05 02:49 -0700
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-05 14:55 +0000
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-05 22:05 +0200

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