Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful

From	anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful
Date	2013-04-03 16:13 +0000
Organization	Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Message-ID	<2013Apr3.181309@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <kial83$tmm$1@online.de> <2013Mar20.130344@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <kicso8$jga$1@online.de> <2013Mar30.174002@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <kjajcv$30k$1@online.de>

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Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> writes:
> You either limit the way to deal with special compilation 
>semantics to the attempts that didn't work very well, or break the user-
>written compiler.

The approach that we used in Gforth works well, and does not break the
user-written compiler.

>special double-xt headers (works for 
>colon words, failed for create-does> words, which is the majority of words 
>where I need special compilation semantics),

How did it fail for create-does> words?  That did not come up
seriously in the discussion yet.

In any case, if the whole special compilation semantics stuff was
limited to a few funny words like S" and TO, to be phased out when
recognizers or some other better solution gets traction, limitations
on ticking words with special compilation semantics would be a minor
issue.  Letting the users define such words changes that, and if you
define defining words for such words makes it even more likely that at
some point the difference between the Forth-94 COMPILE, and the one
you are proposing will actually show up.

>> Read the standard!  BTW, you found the DEFERS definition that uses it
>> yourself, and it was not written by me.
>
>A standard program shall not ' a special compilation semantics word (I think 
>we agree that the allowance to ' S" is limited to the kernel S", which does 
>not have special compilation semantics - it's just a normal immediate word), 
>since all other words like IS and TO are mentioned.  So a standard program 
>can't say
>
>' to is some-deferred-word
>
>Since it can't do this, the wrong definition of DEFERS is not a real 
>problem.

You don't want to enforce that limitation, and you want to have a much
wider usage of words with special compilation semantics, so eventually
somebody will tick such words, and some of the resulting xts will
eventually reach COMPILE, (whether in DEFERS, or a code-generating
macro, or whatever), and the problem will be real.

>  In any case, the definition of DEFERS can be fixed, as we probably 
>want to entitle people to ' special-compilation semantics, and then do what 
>they like with it.

So you propose changing COMPILE, in a way that will break existing
programs (like DEFERS).  Maybe you should move to the GCC team.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2013: http://www.euroforth.org/ef13/

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Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-19 22:27 +0100
  Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-20 03:49 -0500
    Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-20 11:09 +0000
      Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-20 10:25 -0500
        Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-20 18:08 +0100
          Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-20 13:04 -0500
            Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-20 20:12 +0100
              Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-21 04:39 -0500
          Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-20 19:22 +0000
        Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-30 17:35 +0000
          Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-31 08:51 -0500
            Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-02 15:50 +0000
              Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-02 16:16 -0500
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-03 11:57 +0000
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-03 10:25 -0500
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-03 16:45 +0000
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-03 15:12 -0500
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-04 15:29 +0000
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-05 09:11 -0500
      Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-20 10:27 -0700
  Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-20 12:03 +0000
    Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-20 18:47 +0100
      Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-30 16:40 +0000
        Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-01 02:12 +0200
          Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-01 16:58 +0000
            Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-02 04:20 +0200
              Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-04-01 16:39 -1000
              Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-02 14:15 +0000
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-02 21:12 +0200
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-04 13:58 +0000
            Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-02 04:17 -0500
              Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-02 15:35 +0000
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-02 16:36 -0500
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-03 04:10 +0200
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-03 04:03 -0500
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-03 21:14 +0200
          Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-03 16:13 +0000
            Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-04-03 11:54 -0500
            Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-03 22:24 +0200
              Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-04-04 11:53 +0000
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-04 18:13 +0200
              Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-04 15:53 +0000
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-04 22:11 +0200
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-04-04 21:35 +0100
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-04 23:06 +0200
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-04-05 10:57 +0000
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-05 14:47 +0000
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-05 14:28 +0000
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-06 03:35 +0200
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-04-08 23:50 -0400
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-04-08 23:49 -0400
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2013-04-05 02:49 -0700
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-04-05 14:55 +0000
                Re: Difficulty with Brad Rodriguez' screenful Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-04-05 22:05 +0200

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