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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #587034
| From | Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.physics.relativity |
| Subject | Re: ...all those Science guys |
| Date | 2022-06-16 07:59 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <jgvv69F8upjU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | (5 earlier) <jgqnqdFmeesU1@mid.individual.net> <t8a80l$l1i$1@dont-email.me> <1ptjxii.15psy791t0w0gN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> <jgtqjbF6ol9U1@mid.individual.net> <t8cvun$k9q$1@dont-email.me> |
Am 15.06.2022 um 18:04 schrieb Volney: > On 6/15/2022 6:29 AM, Thomas Heger wrote: >> Am 14.06.2022 um 20:27 schrieb J. J. Lodder: >>> Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>> On 6/14/2022 2:23 AM, Thomas Heger wrote: >>>>> Am 13.06.2022 um 19:04 schrieb Volney: >>>>>> On 6/11/2022 6:48 PM, The Starmaker wrote: >>>>>>> Volney wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 6/11/2022 12:37 AM, Thomas Heger wrote: >>>>>>>>> Am 10.06.2022 um 07:37 schrieb The Starmaker: >>>>>>>>>> Most people are not aware... >>>>>>>>>> (even among this very newsgroup) >>>>>>>>>> that all those Science guys >>>>>>>>>> who worked on >>>>>>>>>> The Manhattan Project >>>>>>>>>> *didn't* want to work on >>>>>>>>>> The Manhattan Project. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> They had better things >>>>>>>>>> to do than work for >>>>>>>>>> Albert Einstein's project. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Those science guys were >>>>>>>>>> *forced* to work on >>>>>>>>>> The Manhattan Project. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Against their will. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> They were ...drafted. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The atomic bomb was most likely well known, before the Manhattan >>>>>>>>> Project >>>>>>>>> even started (most likely known by Einstein himself). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The reason: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> the inventor of the atomic bomb Leo Szillard and Einstein have >>>>>>>>> patented >>>>>>>>> a 'fridge', which has only one known use in a fast breeding >>>>>>>>> reactor. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Totally absurd! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> First, this was patented in 1926, but the science behind breeder >>>>>>>> reactors wasn't even known then. The neutron wasn't discovered >>>>>>>> until >>>>>>>> 1932, atomic fission wasn't known until 1938, and plutonium in >>>>>>>> 1940. >>>>>>>> How could something be created for a use which was entirely >>>>>>>> unknown at >>>>>>>> the time of patenting? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Secondly, it does have non-nuclear uses. It has been used to keep >>>>>>>> vaccines cold in third world countries, as it only needs heat, no >>>>>>>> electricity. It's also very much like propane refrigerators >>>>>>>> used in >>>>>>>> RVs >>>>>>>> and "off the grid" people everywhere. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Third, it uses liquid butane and dissolved ammonia in its >>>>>>>> operation, >>>>>>>> which tells me that there is no way it could work at the high >>>>>>>> temperatures of a nuclear reactor. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You apparently got that crap from Starfarter, who also claimed >>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> also claims many incorrect bizarre claims about Einstein, and many >>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>> things as well. You should be embarrassed for believing >>>>>>>> anything from >>>>>>>> Starfarter. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Therefore there was a need for such a device already in 1930 in >>>>>>>>> Germany. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Like what? Nobody knew of nuclear fission, neutrons or >>>>>>>> plutonium, much >>>>>>>> less the combination of them known as a fast breeding reactor. >>>>>>>> Or any >>>>>>>> nuclear reactor, for that matter. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And the only known use of a fast breeding reactor is to produce >>>>>>>>> Plutonium. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Which was unknown in 1926, and unknown for the next 14 years. BTW >>>>>>>> another use of fast breeders is to simply produce >>>>>>>> electricity/nuclear >>>>>>>> power. In fact, ALL nuclear reactors do a little bit of breeding >>>>>>>> (making U-238 in their fuel into plutonium, some of which powers >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> reactor during the time before it needs refueling, and is one of >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> dangerous components of spent fuel). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And for this dangerous element we also have only a single known >>>>>>>>> reason: >>>>>>>>> atomic bombs. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It can be used for power in nuclear power plants designed to burn >>>>>>>> it. In >>>>>>>> fact, around 1992, Russia gave the US much of its ex-USSR >>>>>>>> plutonium so >>>>>>>> that it could be used/destroyed in nuclear reactors so couldn't >>>>>>>> be used >>>>>>>> in bombs. (now Putin wants it back :-) ) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That's why we have to think about Mega-fraud in connection to the >>>>>>>>> Manhattan project, too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What mega-fraud, and what does the Manhattan project have to do >>>>>>>> with a >>>>>>>> fancy RV refrigerator? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A 'good' reason for this project could have been, that all >>>>>>>>> participants >>>>>>>>> were sworn into secrecy, hence could not question the public >>>>>>>>> narrative. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You mean: "If any of us discovers or learns something of extreme >>>>>>>> military significance 12 years from now, don't tell ANYONE! Pinky >>>>>>>> Promise!!!" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You're not even wrong! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your first mistake when you said: >>>>>>> "First, this was patented in 1926, but the science behind breeder >>>>>>> reactors wasn't even known then." >>>>>> >>>>>> Invented in 1926, patented Nov 11, 1930. This doesn't affect my >>>>>> point. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The patent was filed by Einstein in Dec 16, 1927 >>>>>>> https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/53/e9/74/2cde176701fab8/US1781 >>>>>>> >>> 541.pdf >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your second mistake was...when you said.."...but the science behind >>>>>>> breeder >>>>>>> reactors wasn't even known then." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It was Albert Einstein who INVENTED the science behind breeder >>>>>>> reactors! >>>>>> >>>>>> Absurd. Neither Einstein, nor anyone else, knew of nuclear fission, >>>>>> neutrons nor plutonium in 1926, knowledge of all of which would be >>>>>> needed to even come up with the concept of a "breeder reactor". >>>>>> >>>>>> The motivation behind his refrigerator invention was reading a >>>>>> newspaper >>>>>> story how an entire family was killed when poisonous refrigerant >>>>>> leaked >>>>>> from a conventional refrigerator and he wanted to create a >>>>>> refrigerator >>>>>> without a seal which could leak. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Einstein's fridge could not work. >>>> >>>> The fact that it *did* work obviously shows that this is wrong. If >>>> reality conflicts with a claim, it's not reality which is wrong. >>>> >>>> It failed commercially because Freon was invented so standard >>>> refrigerators could be used without poisonous refrigerants, it wasn't >>>> efficient, and rise of Nazism/WW2. >>> >>> It didn't fail at all. >>> 'Absorbtion' refrigerators were marketed until the sixties. >>> What killed them was thermal inefficiency. >>> And not even that, they are still marketed for mobile applications, >>> like camping cars, and other nice applications, >>> >> >> >> There has been a group of student, who tried to replicate Einstein's >> fridge, but clomplained, it would not work. > > So they weren't very good at building things. As far as I can tell, NOBODY EVER was able to replicate the fridge. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_refrigerator The design of Einstein's fridge seems to be false, as it did not match the description of absorption fridges in that wikipedia page. Einstein's fridge used three substances: water, ammonia und butane. The actually refridgerant was ammonia, while butane was meant as low boiling innert liquid. Now household friges use hydrogen gas for what Einstein wanted to use butane for. But the butane was liquid, while in these fridges the hydrogen is a gas: Quote: "The ammonia (gas) and hydrogen (gas) mixture flows through a pipe from the evaporator into the absorber. In the absorber, this mixture of gases contacts water (technically, a weak solution of ammonia in water). The gaseous ammonia dissolves in the water, while the hydrogen, which doesn't, collects at the top of the absorber, leaving the now-strong ammonia-and-water solution at the bottom. The hydrogen is now separate while the ammonia is now dissolved in the water." > As I already said, another group used the design as a vaccine cooler for > third world countries with limited electricity access did succeed around > 2005. Mostly used were such fridges in boats and mobile homes, which also have limitted acces to power lines. >> I tried to find out, why it wouldn't work and found, it contains no >> ventury tube and the third component butane cannot be kept liquid. > > Venturi tube? They are used to measure flow rates of a gas. > Did you mean expansion valve? I actually meant 'Drossel' (in German), but was too lazy to search for an appropriate translation. What I found was 'Ventury-Düse'. > It's an absorption refrigerator! They don't have expansion valves or > compressors! As to liquid butane, I have a canister of it right here. > Seems to be liquid just fine. > >> So, it was imho not an absorption fridge. > > You are very, very confused. I have heard, this device by Einstein and Szillard was ONLY used in fast breeding reactors. No other use is known so far. > Your OCD hatred for Einstein has blinded you. You are spewing nonsense > in response. >> >> Such fridges were and are in common use, of course, but none used the >> principles of Einstein's fridge. >> >> But someone paid for this patent. > > Likely Szilard and Einstein. No, they were the inventors. 'Someone paid' means a company, who paid Einstein and Szillard for their patent. But the payment does not necessarily need to exchange the value of the patent. Also entirely worthless items can be 'sold', if the reason for a transfer of money shall be kept secret. As Leo Szillar was the inventor of the atomic bomb, too, a payment for the fridge could possibly be a hidden payment for the bomb. > A company bought rights to the patent but AFAIK didn't make a product > from it. No, the payment was in the form of regualr payments for a long period of time, not in the form of a single price. That patent was therefore 'rented', not sold. >> For such a payment we need a justification. > > Einstein and Szilard wanted to protect their intellectual property! That > is what patents are for. No further justification needed. Sure. But usually you see the payment from the perspective of the tenent/buyer. So, what was the motive of the buyer? >> I would say, as a guess, that the patent had a value, but was not >> about a household fridge, but about a part of a reactor. This 'fridge' >> used molten metalls and very high temperatures and operated on other >> principles than household absorption fridges. > > And, in 1926-1930, what use could there be for such a thing? The entire > concept of breeder reactors, nuclear reactors or even fission was > completely unknown at the time. It is almost entirely impossible to prove statements containing 'impossible'. 'unknown' is similarily impossible to prove, because we can know only known things. ... > Also a refrigerator running off ammonia, water and butane as working > fluids isn't going to work at temperatures of molten metals! Sure. But butane was not the only substance possible in that patent and introduced only as an example for an innert fluid. If you scale the temperature range up by far, you could think about gassous forms of metal, too. That would fit far better to 'fast breeding reactor'. TH
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...all those Science guys The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-06-09 22:37 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-06-09 23:44 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-06-09 23:58 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-06-10 00:05 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-06-10 00:08 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-06-10 00:11 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-06-10 00:18 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-06-10 10:44 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-06-10 11:08 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-06-11 11:19 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-06-12 09:37 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-06-14 10:31 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-06-14 10:38 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-06-14 11:17 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-06-18 18:06 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys Python <python@python.invalid> - 2022-06-18 18:43 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-06-18 09:52 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys Python <python@python.invalid> - 2022-06-18 20:38 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-06-18 12:16 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-06-19 07:36 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys Python <python@python.invalid> - 2022-06-19 08:16 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-06-20 07:44 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-06-21 06:58 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-06-21 22:36 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-06-21 15:13 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-06-24 11:36 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-06-25 20:30 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-06-26 11:22 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-06-26 21:29 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-06-22 06:44 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-06-23 08:36 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-06-24 20:07 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-06-26 06:48 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-06-26 01:19 -0400
Re: ...all those Science guys Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-06-25 22:38 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-06-26 21:10 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-06-26 11:22 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-06-26 03:12 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-06-26 21:22 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-06-10 09:42 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-06-25 08:49 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys Athel Cornish-Bowden <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> - 2022-06-10 14:35 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-06-10 15:55 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-06-10 09:05 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-06-15 11:24 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys Athel Cornish-Bowden <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> - 2022-06-15 11:35 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-06-15 15:00 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-06-16 12:26 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-06-11 06:37 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-06-11 12:12 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-06-12 07:45 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-06-11 17:37 -0400
Re: ...all those Science guys The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-06-11 15:48 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-06-13 13:04 -0400
Re: ...all those Science guys Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-06-14 08:23 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-06-14 11:03 -0400
Re: ...all those Science guys The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-06-14 10:28 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-06-14 20:27 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-06-15 12:29 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-06-15 12:04 -0400
Re: ...all those Science guys Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-06-16 07:59 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-06-16 08:04 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-06-17 18:54 -0400
Re: ...all those Science guys The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-06-18 00:42 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-06-18 15:06 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-06-16 12:26 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-06-16 08:30 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-06-17 08:38 +0200
Re: ...all those Science guys Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-06-17 00:18 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2022-06-15 15:12 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2022-06-13 11:45 -0700
Re: ...all those Science guys nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-06-14 13:08 +0200
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