Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability)

From	Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups	comp.theory
Subject	Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability)
Date	2020-07-29 20:24 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<87365a9lb6.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References	(16 earlier) <U7ydnaCBLd2fPr3CnZ2dnUU7-YnNnZ2d@giganews.com> <87k0ynb3lq.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <46mdnVc5cLQdRL3CnZ2dnUU7-a3NnZ2d@giganews.com> <871rkubn07.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <KZSdnRt6Pd6YKLzCnZ2dnUU7-TfNnZ2d@giganews.com>

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olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:

> On 7/29/2020 6:04 AM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 7/28/2020 6:51 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>> <cut>
>>>>> except on the relation "father of" referring to an order pair
>>>>> <a26, a87> of unique individuals in the domain of humans.
>>>>
>>>> If you keep subtly altering what you say, my objection will be subtly
>>>> different too.  You will think I'm changing my mind (or being
>>>> disingenuous) but I'm just responding to what you actually write.
>>>>
>>>> Here, I am glad to see you have written "father of" as if it were and
>>>> ordinary English phrase.  That's what Mendelson did, so I am happy to
>>>> assume you mean the same relationship he did.
>>>>
>>>> If, instead, you make it look like a symbol (as you have done) and maybe
>>>> give it arguments (especially arguments that look like constants in
>>>> Mendelson's notation) it becomes a predicate or a formula and could mean
>>>> anything depending on the interpretation.
>>>
>>> Not within the fricking context of our conversation.
>>
>> We are talking about the interpretation of formal languages.  The
>> conversation is about formulas, predicates, functions, constants,
>> relations and domains.  How could writing something the looks like a
>> predicate (or maybe function, possibly a relation) when you did not mean
>> to be anything other than confusing?  I think your arrogance extends to
>> thinking that anyone who does not know exactly what you mean must be
>> dumb, disingenuous or a troll.
>>
>>>>> if {a26, a87} are a pair of baby girls then we can know that the
>>>>> "father of" relation is not satisified by the ordered pair <a26, a87>.
>>>>
>>>> You are free to make up your own notation, but you are using two symbols
>>>> that Mendelson uses for constants.  This can lead to confusion.  Humans
>>>> very often have names, so you could have said "if {Jane, Aisha} are a pair
>>>
>>> Yet the names are never unique. To specify unique individuals in the
>>> universe we really need a GUID. (Globally Unique Idetifier). a26 and
>>> a87 for a short-hand proxy for that.
>>
>> Then make them (look) unique without using confusing terminology:
>> Jane82767, Aisha165.  Remember, for a while, you actually claimed the
>> constants are "in the domain of humans" so it was reasonable to think
>> you were confused about what role constants play in all this.
>>
>
> So more precisely:
> The names of constants in L mathematically map to the the same names
> of unique elements in D: L.a26 ↦ D.a26 and L.a87 ↦ D.a87

In other words, you know you were wrong, and you should have kept the
distinction between the two clear.  Obviously, being you, you have
chosen to invent a new way of doing this that is deliberately open to
misinterpretation.  Here, you leave open the possibility of omitting the
prefix:

> Thus when I say that a26 and a87 are in the set of humans this
> specifies D.a26 and D.a87.

Your notation is designed solely to make it seem that did not make a
mistake.  Rather than say "Oh, I see.  Yes, I was wrong." you have
decided to burden any further discussion with this junk notation.

> When I say that the relation "father of" is satisfied for the order
> pair <a26, a87> in the set of humans we don't have to automatically
> forget that I already said that I just said a26 and a87 are unique
> elements in the set of humans.
>
> ∃!a26 ∈ humans ∃!a87 ∈ humans (Father_of(a26, a87))
>
> also leaves no wiggle room for intentionally forced disingenuous
> ambiguity within the context of the hand waving English definition of
> the "father of" relation.

In an attempt to justify your previous errors, you have spun a web of
daft names and implied prefixes.  No one will use this silly notation.
Stop using it.  Use Mendelson's, or pick something by another
knowledgeable author.

>> But as I said, you can use Mendelson's notation for constants as UIDs
>> for humans, provided you say so.
>>
>>>> of baby girls then we can know that the "father of" relation is not
>>>> satisified by the ordered pair <Jane, Aisha>".  Has you said that, I'd
>>>> just say "yup".
>>>
>>> Except that some Janes are men with daughters.
>>
>> Don't come the raw prawn with me mate.  You said they were "baby girls"
>> as did I.  This comment disappoints me.  Up to know I tough you wer just
>> confused.  Maybe you are the one being disingenuous.
>
> I just wanted to make sure that we agreed on the concept of unique
> elelments of a set.

I want to think you are being dishonest, but maybe you are so ignorant
of set theory that you think the elements of a set might not be unique.

> The way that you said it would include some men named Jane that have
> daughters.

I wrote, copying your sentence, "if {Jane, Aisha} are a pair of baby
girls then we can know that the "father of" relation is not satisfied by
the ordered pair <Jane, Aisha>".  There can be no other Jane in the
domain other than that baby girl.  There may be Jane2, Jane3 and Jane
Doe, but we know for sure (if the antecedent is accepted) that Jane is
not a man with children.
 
So help me out.  Was your reply prompted by ignorance of set theory, or
was it a dishonest attempt to score a cheap point?

> ∃!a26 ∈ humans ∃!a87 ∈ humans (Father_of(a26, a87))

You are talking to yourself if you continue to use this deliberately
confusing notation, designed as it was solely in order to hide the fact
that you made a mistake.

> Other authors do it this way too:
> https://sites.math.washington.edu/~aloveles/Math300Winter2011/m300Quantifiers.pdf

That document says nothing about how to distinguish between constants in
a formal language and elements in the domain of an interpretation.  It's
just some basic notation.

-- 
Ben.

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  Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-19 03:35 +0100
    Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-19 11:37 -0500
      Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-19 11:25 -0600
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          Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-19 11:56 -0600
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                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-22 13:22 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-20 18:20 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-20 18:28 -0600
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                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-20 20:03 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-21 10:49 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-21 10:47 -0600
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                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-21 11:01 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-21 19:54 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-21 19:23 -0600
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                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-22 10:16 -0500
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                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-24 12:06 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-24 13:26 -0500
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                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-26 10:36 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-26 10:39 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-24 20:20 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-24 14:37 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-25 00:13 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-24 19:25 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-24 12:02 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-24 23:49 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-24 18:49 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-25 02:28 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-24 22:18 -0600
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                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-25 01:46 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-25 10:31 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-25 12:04 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-25 14:45 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-26 00:51 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-25 22:46 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-26 12:10 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-25 22:53 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-26 20:46 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-26 16:42 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-26 15:46 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-26 22:46 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-27 00:28 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-26 17:05 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-27 02:52 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-27 00:30 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-27 00:33 +0100
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                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-27 12:23 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-27 23:41 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-27 17:37 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-27 19:08 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-27 19:57 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-27 21:14 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-27 20:45 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-27 21:55 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-27 22:58 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 00:07 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-27 23:16 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 00:38 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-28 00:05 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 10:00 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-28 21:32 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 22:44 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-28 02:01 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-27 20:45 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-28 03:11 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-27 21:16 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-28 03:24 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-27 21:44 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-28 17:33 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 11:40 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 11:46 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-28 22:58 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 17:13 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-29 00:51 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 21:05 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-29 12:04 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-29 12:42 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-29 20:24 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-29 15:38 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-30 01:31 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-30 10:29 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-30 17:45 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-31 10:55 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-28 17:50 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 11:57 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-28 20:30 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 14:38 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-28 22:52 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 17:09 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-29 01:00 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 21:29 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Alan Smaill <smaill@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> - 2020-07-29 15:47 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-29 13:20 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-29 12:13 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-29 15:16 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-29 14:43 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-29 22:37 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-29 18:34 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-30 02:01 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-31 10:34 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-01 01:48 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-01 10:58 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-01 21:24 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-01 15:33 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-02 00:24 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-02 09:51 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-02 17:29 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-03 09:41 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-03 17:39 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-02 18:04 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-08-01 23:19 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-29 16:33 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-29 13:31 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-29 12:02 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-29 14:57 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-29 22:47 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-29 15:33 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-29 20:50 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-29 18:51 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-30 02:38 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-31 10:36 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-01 00:47 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-01 01:30 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-01 12:55 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-01 10:45 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-01 20:28 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-01 15:10 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-02 00:11 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-02 09:43 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-02 17:20 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-03 09:39 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-03 17:46 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-30 00:28 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 23:31 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-29 16:43 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-29 14:02 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-30 00:36 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-29 21:44 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-29 21:50 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-29 21:55 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-31 10:48 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-31 12:45 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-31 14:55 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-31 13:13 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-31 16:16 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-31 14:42 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-31 18:16 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-31 14:44 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-31 14:02 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-31 17:58 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-31 22:33 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-31 10:43 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-30 13:39 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-31 10:51 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-01 00:58 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-01 10:52 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-01 21:02 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-02 09:28 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-02 17:45 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-03 09:46 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-03 17:46 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-03 13:22 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2020-07-30 20:35 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-30 12:57 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-30 17:20 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2020-07-30 23:24 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-30 16:30 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2020-07-31 01:31 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-30 20:36 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-31 00:12 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-30 20:41 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-30 17:10 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-30 16:31 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-30 20:50 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-30 20:40 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-31 01:34 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-28 10:41 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 12:51 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Kaz Kylheku <793-849-0957@kylheku.com> - 2020-07-28 08:23 +0000
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 09:20 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-26 13:00 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-26 22:45 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-27 16:17 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-27 23:51 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-26 22:46 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-27 17:14 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-28 00:22 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-24 15:57 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-25 00:03 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-24 19:10 -0500

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