Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability)

Subject	Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability)
Newsgroups	comp.theory
References	(17 earlier) <87y2n3b8tz.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <U7ydnaCBLd2fPr3CnZ2dnUU7-YnNnZ2d@giganews.com> <87k0ynb3lq.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <46mdnVc5cLQdRL3CnZ2dnUU7-a3NnZ2d@giganews.com> <871rkubn07.fsf@bsb.me.uk>
From	olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com>
Date	2020-07-29 12:42 -0500
Message-ID	<KZSdnRt6Pd6YKLzCnZ2dnUU7-TfNnZ2d@giganews.com> (permalink)

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On 7/29/2020 6:04 AM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
> 
>> On 7/28/2020 6:51 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
> <cut>
>>>> except on the relation "father of" referring to an order pair
>>>> <a26, a87> of unique individuals in the domain of humans.
>>>
>>> If you keep subtly altering what you say, my objection will be subtly
>>> different too.  You will think I'm changing my mind (or being
>>> disingenuous) but I'm just responding to what you actually write.
>>>
>>> Here, I am glad to see you have written "father of" as if it were and
>>> ordinary English phrase.  That's what Mendelson did, so I am happy to
>>> assume you mean the same relationship he did.
>>>
>>> If, instead, you make it look like a symbol (as you have done) and maybe
>>> give it arguments (especially arguments that look like constants in
>>> Mendelson's notation) it becomes a predicate or a formula and could mean
>>> anything depending on the interpretation.
>>
>> Not within the fricking context of our conversation.
> 
> We are talking about the interpretation of formal languages.  The
> conversation is about formulas, predicates, functions, constants,
> relations and domains.  How could writing something the looks like a
> predicate (or maybe function, possibly a relation) when you did not mean
> to be anything other than confusing?  I think your arrogance extends to
> thinking that anyone who does not know exactly what you mean must be
> dumb, disingenuous or a troll.
> 
>>>> if {a26, a87} are a pair of baby girls then we can know that the
>>>> "father of" relation is not satisified by the ordered pair <a26, a87>.
>>>
>>> You are free to make up your own notation, but you are using two symbols
>>> that Mendelson uses for constants.  This can lead to confusion.  Humans
>>> very often have names, so you could have said "if {Jane, Aisha} are a pair
>>
>> Yet the names are never unique. To specify unique individuals in the
>> universe we really need a GUID. (Globally Unique Idetifier). a26 and
>> a87 for a short-hand proxy for that.
> 
> Then make them (look) unique without using confusing terminology:
> Jane82767, Aisha165.  Remember, for a while, you actually claimed the
> constants are "in the domain of humans" so it was reasonable to think
> you were confused about what role constants play in all this.
> 

So more precisely:
The names of constants in L mathematically map to the the same names of 
unique elements in D: L.a26 ↦ D.a26 and L.a87 ↦ D.a87

Thus when I say that a26 and a87 are in the set of humans this specifies 
D.a26 and D.a87.

When I say that the relation "father of" is satisfied for the order pair 
<a26, a87> in the set of humans we don't have to automatically forget 
that I already said that I just said a26 and a87 are unique elements in 
the set of humans.

∃!a26 ∈ humans ∃!a87 ∈ humans (Father_of(a26, a87))

also leaves no wiggle room for intentionally forced disingenuous 
ambiguity within the context of the hand waving English definition of 
the "father of" relation.

> But as I said, you can use Mendelson's notation for constants as UIDs
> for humans, provided you say so.
> 
>>> of baby girls then we can know that the "father of" relation is not
>>> satisified by the ordered pair <Jane, Aisha>".  Has you said that, I'd
>>> just say "yup".
>>
>> Except that some Janes are men with daughters.
> 
> Don't come the raw prawn with me mate.  You said they were "baby girls"
> as did I.  This comment disappoints me.  Up to know I tough you wer just
> confused.  Maybe you are the one being disingenuous.

I just wanted to make sure that we agreed on the concept of unique 
elelments of a set. The way that you said it would include some men 
named Jane that have daughters. Jane3851264 might be contrued as unique. 
a26 and a87 as constants of L that mathematically map to corresponding 
elements of D are defined to be unique.

One thing good about this whole annoying aspect of the conversation is 
that I am much more clear that a26 as a constant of a language that must 
be explicitly defined to map to a unique element of D.

I have always done that using syntax such as this:
∃!a26 ∈ humans ∃!a87 ∈ humans (Father_of(a26, a87))

>>> As it is, I have to ask why are you using what look like constants as
>>> elements of the domain?  If you don't what to be specific, at least
>>> write <(a26)^M, (a87)^M>.
>>
>> The whole fricking idea of contants is that they are globally unique
>> identifiers.
> 
> They are not in the domain of discourse.  Learn this or give up on the
> whole topic.
> 

They can be directly defined to be in the domain of discourse without 
any extra steps.
∃!a26 ∈ humans ∃!a87 ∈ humans (Father_of(a26, a87))

Other authors do it this way too:
https://sites.math.washington.edu/~aloveles/Math300Winter2011/m300Quantifiers.pdf


-- 
Copyright 2020 Pete Olcott

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Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-18 15:31 -0500
  Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-19 03:35 +0100
    Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-19 11:37 -0500
      Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-19 11:25 -0600
        Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-19 12:46 -0500
          Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-19 11:56 -0600
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              Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-19 14:06 -0600
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            Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-19 17:21 -0500
              Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-19 15:57 -0700
      Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-20 01:55 +0100
        Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-19 23:52 -0500
          Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-19 23:15 -0600
            Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-20 12:56 -0500
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                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-20 14:49 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-20 21:42 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-21 10:51 -0600
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                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-21 19:35 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-22 09:47 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-22 09:23 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-22 10:21 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-22 13:22 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-20 18:20 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-20 18:28 -0600
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                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-20 21:44 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-20 20:03 -0700
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                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-21 10:47 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-21 11:54 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-21 11:01 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-21 19:54 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-21 19:23 -0600
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                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-21 20:22 -0500
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                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-24 12:33 -0700
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                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-24 14:16 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-24 14:43 -0600
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                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-24 17:45 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-24 15:57 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-24 16:11 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-24 15:52 -0700
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com> - 2020-07-24 19:02 +0000
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-26 10:27 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-26 10:36 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-26 10:39 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-24 20:20 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-24 14:37 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-25 00:13 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-24 19:25 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-24 12:02 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-24 23:49 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-24 18:49 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-25 02:28 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-24 22:18 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-24 21:58 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-25 01:46 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-25 10:31 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-25 12:04 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-25 14:45 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-26 00:51 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-25 22:46 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-26 12:10 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-25 22:53 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-26 20:46 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-26 16:42 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-26 15:46 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-26 22:46 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-27 00:28 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-26 17:05 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-27 02:52 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-27 00:30 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-27 00:33 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-26 22:39 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-27 14:12 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-27 12:23 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-27 23:41 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-27 17:37 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-27 19:08 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-27 19:57 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-27 21:14 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-27 20:45 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-27 21:55 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-27 22:58 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 00:07 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-27 23:16 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 00:38 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-28 00:05 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 10:00 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-28 21:32 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 22:44 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-28 02:01 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-27 20:45 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-28 03:11 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-27 21:16 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-28 03:24 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-27 21:44 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-28 17:33 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 11:40 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 11:46 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-28 22:58 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 17:13 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-29 00:51 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 21:05 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-29 12:04 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-29 12:42 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-29 20:24 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-29 15:38 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-30 01:31 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-30 10:29 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-30 17:45 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-31 10:55 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-28 17:50 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 11:57 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-28 20:30 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 14:38 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-28 22:52 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 17:09 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-29 01:00 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 21:29 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Alan Smaill <smaill@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> - 2020-07-29 15:47 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-29 13:20 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-29 12:13 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-29 15:16 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-29 14:43 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-29 22:37 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-29 18:34 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-30 02:01 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-31 10:34 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-01 01:48 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-01 10:58 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-01 21:24 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-01 15:33 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-02 00:24 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-02 09:51 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-02 17:29 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-03 09:41 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-03 17:39 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-08-02 18:04 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-08-01 23:19 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-29 16:33 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-29 13:31 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-29 12:02 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-29 14:57 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-29 22:47 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-29 15:33 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-29 20:50 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-29 18:51 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-30 02:38 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-31 10:36 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-01 00:47 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-01 01:30 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-01 12:55 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-01 10:45 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-01 20:28 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-01 15:10 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-02 00:11 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-02 09:43 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-02 17:20 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-03 09:39 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-03 17:46 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-30 00:28 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 23:31 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-29 16:43 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-29 14:02 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-30 00:36 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-29 21:44 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-29 21:50 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-29 21:55 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-31 10:48 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-31 12:45 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-31 14:55 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-31 13:13 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-31 16:16 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-31 14:42 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-31 18:16 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-31 14:44 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-31 14:02 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-31 17:58 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-31 22:33 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-31 10:43 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-30 13:39 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-31 10:51 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-01 00:58 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-01 10:52 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-01 21:02 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-02 09:28 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-02 17:45 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-03 09:46 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-08-03 17:46 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-08-03 13:22 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2020-07-30 20:35 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-30 12:57 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-30 17:20 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2020-07-30 23:24 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-30 16:30 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2020-07-31 01:31 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-30 20:36 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-31 00:12 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-30 20:41 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-30 17:10 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-30 16:31 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-30 20:50 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-30 20:40 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-31 01:34 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-28 10:41 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 12:51 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Kaz Kylheku <793-849-0957@kylheku.com> - 2020-07-28 08:23 +0000
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-28 09:20 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-26 13:00 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-26 22:45 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-27 16:17 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-27 23:51 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-26 22:46 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-27 17:14 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V33 (Mendelson Satisfiability) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-28 00:22 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-24 15:57 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-25 00:03 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V31 (Semantically Incorrect Defined) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-24 19:10 -0500

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