Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen

From	D <nospam@example.net>
Newsgroups	comp.misc
Subject	Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen
Date	2024-07-07 12:31 +0200
Organization	i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID	<7896d979-7348-9c9c-d5a1-db664baa32fc@example.net> (permalink)
References	<slrnv85b2k.1pv.bencollver@svadhyaya.localdomain> <335ed481-557d-7d19-949a-fadba2016d2f@example.net> <v69fbp$3d8jk$1@dont-email.me> <fceb74f9-2c99-98f2-7773-f8d07b7bbc56@example.net> <v6bgq4$oc5$1@panix2.panix.com>

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On Sat, 6 Jul 2024, Scott Dorsey wrote:

> D  <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> They are. One sentence says that free markets become oligopolies (which is
>> not true) while the other says that government regulated markets (non-free
>> markets) become oligopolies.
>
> But they BOTH can become oligopolies.

I give you this, _for a time_ but the free market is a dynamic, changing 
system, as technology progresses, new products, services and replacement 
parts will arrive and be developed and old monopolies and oligopolies will 
fall.

At worst, you'll end up with an equilibrium, where you might have a few 
100s or 1000s of companies and where prices are quite static and balanced 
by the supply and demand.

The consumer only benefits from this. The classic marxist idea of one 
company rising to the top and forcing everyone to live at starvation 
levels due to high prices, is impossible.

>> Either free markets create them, or non-free markets. If both create them,
>> this discussion is meaningless. Needless to say, I do not believe so, but
>> if someone does believe it, I see no point in continuing talking.
>
> The natural state of the system is oligopoly.  A government can resist this,
> or it can accelerate it.   This is why a government controlled by an informed
> electorate is so important.
> --scott

Except that the logical failure here is that the government is a monopoly. 
So since humans act on the free market and in governments, any corruption 
or negative effects that supposedly happens on free markets, will happen 
within the government as well. That is why so often, governments just keep 
on growing. The only way to counter that, is collapse of a government or 
severe system shock.

If we reverse the logic, if governments, as monopolies, are benevolent and 
kind, so are the same humans acting on behalf of monopoly companies.

As for the natural state of the system in a free market, it is not 
oligopoly. It is a diverse set of millions and millions of companies. One 
company governing all of earth would collapse the same way as big 
governments (and I'm thinking world government) collapses due to 
inefficient organization.

The free market is self organizing and decentralised, and that is the 
natural state of it, without government creating and helping the behemoths 
we have today.

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My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> - 2024-07-01 13:18 +0000
  Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Kees Nuyt <k.nuyt@nospam.demon.nl> - 2024-07-01 23:28 +0200
  Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-01 23:37 +0200
    Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Ben Collver <bencollver@tilde.pink> - 2024-07-02 04:52 +0000
  Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-01 21:53 +0000
  Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Anonymous <anon@anon.net> - 2024-07-04 00:15 -0400
    Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-04 12:42 +0200
      Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-04 23:49 +0000
        Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2024-07-05 10:56 +0200
          Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-05 11:44 +0200
            Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2024-07-05 12:34 +0000
              Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-05 19:09 +0200
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-07-05 18:51 +0000
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2024-07-05 23:37 +0000
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-06 12:20 +0200
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-06 12:18 +0200
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2024-07-06 13:28 +0000
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-07 12:31 +0200
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-07-08 02:35 +0000
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-08 12:22 +0200
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-07-08 21:50 +0000
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-09 12:09 +0200
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-07-09 12:28 +0000
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-10 12:31 +0200
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-07 04:48 +0000
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-07 12:38 +0200
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2024-07-06 12:12 +0200
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Eric Pozharski <apple.universe@posteo.net> - 2024-07-06 13:40 +0000
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-07 12:35 +0200
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-08 22:13 +0200
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Eric Pozharski <apple.universe@posteo.net> - 2024-07-08 12:11 +0000
          Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-06 01:34 +0000
            Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-07-06 13:00 +1000
              Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-06 07:10 +0000
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-07-07 09:09 +1000
            Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-06 12:28 +0200
              Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Dave Yeo <dave.r.yeo@gmail.com> - 2024-07-06 08:41 -0700
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-07 12:34 +0200
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Dave Yeo <dave.r.yeo@gmail.com> - 2024-07-07 09:27 -0700
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-07 21:08 +0200
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-08 22:12 +0200
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Eric Pozharski <apple.universe@posteo.net> - 2024-07-09 08:34 +0000
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-09 12:10 +0200
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Eric Pozharski <apple.universe@posteo.net> - 2024-07-08 12:04 +0000
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-07 22:06 +0000
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-08 12:19 +0200
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-08 12:17 +0200
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Anonymous <anon@anon.net> - 2024-07-07 20:44 -0400
              Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-07 01:35 +0000
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-07 12:36 +0200
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-07 22:07 +0000
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-08 12:17 +0200
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2024-07-09 00:18 +0000
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-09 12:10 +0200
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Dave Yeo <dave.r.yeo@gmail.com> - 2024-07-10 08:57 -0700
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-10 22:32 +0000
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-11 11:20 +0200
        Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-05 11:37 +0200
          Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-06 01:25 +0000
            Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-06 12:21 +0200
              Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-07 01:37 +0000
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-07 12:37 +0200
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-07 22:34 +0000
                Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-08 12:18 +0200
    Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-04 23:48 +0000
      Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-05 11:40 +0200
        Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-06 01:24 +0000
          Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-06 12:21 +0200
            Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-07-07 01:38 +0000
              Re: My Dinner With Marc Andreessen D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-07-07 12:37 +0200

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