Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #664552

Re: Can a Machine become self-aware?

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

Show all headers | View raw

Jan Panteltje wrote:
> 
> >Jan Panteltje wrote:
> >>
> >> >anthk <anthk@openbsd.home> wrote or quoted:
> >> >>On 2025-06-14, The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >> >>>Can a Machine become self-aware?
> >> >>We are part of the universe, and we are self-aware.
> >> >
> >> >  Self-wareness is an experience that depends on being the
> >> >  entity that experiences it, so it cannot be observed from
> >> >  the outside and therefore also not be expressed in words.
> >> >
> >> >  If you are self-aware, you probably know that you are self-
> >> >  aware, but you cannot know for sure whether something else
> >> >  is self-aware.
> >>
> >> Keep it simple.
> >> In all the 'neurons' or nerve cells, some monitor what other cells do as system to keep life moving.
> >> Its purpose is likely communication.
> >>
> >> When a new born baby is hungry, or feels pain it will scream.
> >> The monitor cells issue a trigger to the voice.
> >> Almost the same as the reaction to pain reflex when you burn your finger etc.
> >> Those monitoring calls are the 'I' as in 'I am'.
> >> We TEACH the kinds who they are, YOU are 'Peter'
> >> and the monitoring system then repeats ,
> >> this 'knowledge' ever grows (memory).
> >> IIRC it is build mostly in the frontal cortex, part of our 'world view'.
> >> You can make it 'learn' with a few lines of code in the sunscreen example I gave.
> >> Voice (word) recognition libraries plenty for for example Linux.
> >> After telling it his name is 'Peter' ask it who it is.
> >> Who are you?
> >> I am peter .
> >>
> >> Add a bit more stuff and it will fool many here :-)
> >>
> >> But basically it is just a monitoring circuit for the cells.
> >> Add a camera, object recognition..
> >> Ask Peter 'Who am I?'
> >> The answer will be  you name.
> >>
> >> Who are you?
> >>  I am Peter.
> >> Peter How's you battery level?
> >>  20% and falling.
> >>   I need  recharge
> >>
> >> beep
> >
> >Monkies
> >gorrilas
> >chimpanzees
> >dogs
> >cats
> >elephants
> >ants
> >insects
> >birds
> >fishes
> >have absolutely no self-awareness.
> 
> That is not correct!
> I watched several programs about animals and their behavior here on German TV.
> There is also stuff on youtube.
> No only are these animals self-ware, they are also aware about what we want, our 'desires'
> There is a video on youtube about a girl hat feeds crows every day, the crows started bringing her pieces of shiny jewels
> (that they likely steal elsewhere) when the crows figured she liked that, as 'reward' for the food!


Pattern Recognition is not self-awarness...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGPGknpq3e0




any bird brain can tell you dat...Jan!





> 
> There are many more cases
> 
> As to the simplicity of what the 'brain circuit' does, AI (as is sold today as the greatest thing),
> has a LOT to learn as far as construct of the brain goes (how our systems mimicry it)
> Today I was reading this in sciencedaily.com:
>   Affordances in the brain: The human superpower AI hasn’t mastered
>  Date:
>   June 23, 2025
>  Source:
>   Universiteit van Amsterdam
>  Summary:
>   Scientists at the University of Amsterdam discovered that our brains automatically understand how we can move through different environments
>   —whether it's swimming in a lake or walking a path—without conscious thought.
>   These "action possibilities," or affordances, light up specific brain regions independently of what’s visually present.
>   In contrast, AI models like ChatGPT still struggle with these intuitive judgments, missing the physical context that humans naturally grasp.
>    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2025/06/250622225921.htm
> 
> It confirms some what I wrote before.. Simplicity.
> 
> Human behavior is not so different from a simple feedback system
> An anecdote:
> in he sixties I got hold of an old American Scientific article about a toy car moving towards a light source..
> Being active in electronics I build a small electric driven car and some photo cell to try it out.
> In my room, with electric lights on, and light reflecting from the white wallpaper,
> the car would drive towards the light wallpaper, get in its own shadow, then reverse, and the thing got into a loop.
> It reminded me how we, humans, are 'looking for the light' and get in our own way (our concepts perhaps).
> Its all so simple.
> Its all too beautiful :-)
>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e__TbhQGJU
> Neural nets, drugs, light, religion, music, logic,
> No I am not on drugs, not even alcohol, but I tried some in the seventies.
> Me, a neural net.
> And crows?
> I still feed those.

-- 
The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable, 
and challenge the unchallengeable.

Back to sci.physics.relativity | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Can a Machine become self-aware? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-06-14 12:37 -0700
  Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2025-06-15 07:02 +0000
    Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2025-06-15 09:43 +0200
    Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertitaylor) - 2025-06-15 07:59 +0000
      Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2025-06-15 13:10 +0000
        Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertitaylor) - 2025-06-15 14:18 +0000
  Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? anthk <anthk@openbsd.home> - 2025-06-21 16:28 +0000
    Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2025-06-21 18:19 +0000
      Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2025-06-22 07:16 +0000
        Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-06-22 11:48 -0700
          Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2025-06-24 07:20 +0000
            Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-06-24 13:11 -0700
              Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2025-06-25 06:24 +0000
                Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-06-25 12:01 -0700
                Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2025-06-26 08:11 +0000
                Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-06-26 10:34 -0700
                Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2025-06-27 05:18 +0000
                Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-06-26 22:39 -0700
                Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-06-26 22:45 -0700
                Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2025-06-28 07:47 +0000
                Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-07-01 07:51 -0700
                Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2025-07-02 06:41 +0000
                Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-07-02 10:56 -0700
                Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? squalk <sq@net.inv> - 2025-07-02 20:03 +0100
                Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-07-02 13:12 -0700
                Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? squalk <sq@net.inv> - 2025-07-02 21:21 +0100
                Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-07-02 15:30 -0700
                Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-07-03 20:06 +0200
                Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-07-03 20:04 +0200
                Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2025-07-03 08:24 +0000
                Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> - 2025-07-03 08:37 +0000
                Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-07-07 22:03 -0700
                Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-07-03 20:01 +0200
    Re: Can a Machine become self-aware? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-06-21 14:43 -0700

csiph-web