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| Date | 2023-06-05 12:39 -0700 |
| References | (14 earlier) <edec0db3-0f0e-4e78-8267-52548b1dc674n@googlegroups.com> <982abeab-52f1-4942-b877-e7bc822e21f6n@googlegroups.com> <d992cfe4-8e05-4bcc-a62a-5712061bf041n@googlegroups.com> <u5l73e$us46$1@solani.org> <646a21f7-82b2-4227-b946-203957360518n@googlegroups.com> |
| Message-ID | <2a83fe48-3d89-4037-a689-91367a8309dfn@googlegroups.com> (permalink) |
| Subject | Re: A Paradox of Equality? |
| From | Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> |
On Monday, June 5, 2023 at 12:32:43 PM UTC-7, Dan Christensen wrote: > On Monday, June 5, 2023 at 1:47:29 PM UTC-4, Mild Shock wrote: > > > Dan Christensen schrieb: > > > On Monday, June 5, 2023 at 5:55:12 AM UTC-4, Mild Shock wrote: > > >> Using ordinary propositional 2nd order logic, we can prove: > > >> > > > > > > Who uses 2nd order logic? I don't think you will find it any math textbooks. They do tend, however, to use a lot of set theory instead. > > > > > Terrence Tao says the contrary: > > > > In order to prevent this post from being totally > > devoid of mathematical content, I’ll mention that > > I recently came across the phenomenon of nonfirstorderisability > > in mathematical logic: there are perfectly meaningful > > and useful statements in mathematics which cannot be > > phrased within the confines of first order logic > > (combined with the language of set theory, or any > > other standard mathematical theory); one must use > > a more powerful language such as second order logic > > instead. This phenomenon is very well known among > > logicians, but I hadn’t learned about it until > > very recently, and had naively assumed that first > > order logic sufficed for “everyday” usage of mathematics. > > https://terrytao.wordpress.com/2007/08/27/printer-friendly-css-and-nonfirstorderizability/#more-172 > > > Interesting. That Terence Tao was only recently aware of it suggests it must be exceedingly rare in math textbooks. > > The Drinker Paradox is also such an instance. > On the contrary, as we have seen here repeatedly, using ordinary set theory, we have: > > EXIST(x):[x in D => Q(D)] for arbitrary set D and proposition Q regardless of its truth value. > > For Smullyan's original Drinker Principle setup, where D is the set of all drinkers, and Q is the proposition ALL(y):y in D. > > Although Smullyan's original informal proof makes no mention of a pub (as above), it could be better formalized as: > > EXIST(x):[x in D => P=D] where D is the set of all those people drinking in a given pub and P is the set of all people in that pub. > Dan > > Download my DC Proof 2.0 freeware at http://www.dcproof.com > Visit my Math Blog at http://www.dcproof.wordpress.com Of course schema for higher-order can be written on down to lower-order, except when there are "extensionality problems", and by problems I mean invalidities or contradictions. For example writing out "material" "implication" down out of schema shows how its "false antecedents" and "false consequents" blow up. There's that first-orderizability is a thing already and it's fine: as long as you don't have quantifier ambiguities that otherwise the "pure" logic is first-order. Anyways you two go on clowning each other it's pretty much bored everybody else where they just ignore it. Especially _stupid_ things ike "I fooled myself and prove you do too", it's considered non-mathematical. (At best.)
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A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 10:33 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 11:02 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 11:17 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 11:47 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 11:57 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 12:37 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 11:13 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 11:20 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 11:42 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 12:14 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 11:56 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 11:58 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 12:08 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 12:25 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 11:26 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-03 21:12 +0200
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-03 21:20 +0200
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 12:27 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-03 21:41 +0200
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-03 21:41 +0200
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 13:02 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-03 22:07 +0200
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 13:27 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 13:49 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 13:56 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 14:12 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 14:24 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 19:24 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-04 06:46 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-04 06:47 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-04 06:51 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-04 09:33 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-04 12:22 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-04 13:48 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-04 14:38 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-04 15:29 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-04 17:20 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-04 18:23 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 01:31 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 02:55 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 08:22 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-05 19:47 +0200
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 11:59 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-05 21:49 +0200
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 13:39 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 12:32 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 12:39 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 13:03 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 13:09 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 13:14 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 14:34 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 15:04 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 15:14 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 15:26 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 16:33 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 14:22 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 15:06 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 17:13 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 17:26 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 17:36 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 17:47 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 17:54 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 18:00 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 18:02 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 18:05 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 18:35 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 22:38 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 22:47 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 22:58 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-06 07:35 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-06 09:11 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-06 10:08 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-08 01:25 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-08 08:09 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-08 11:09 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-08 11:35 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-08 11:36 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-09 12:51 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-09 13:12 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 18:17 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 18:44 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 14:09 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 14:32 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 17:42 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 18:32 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 19:04 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-16 05:53 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-16 16:59 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-16 17:07 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-16 21:55 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 19:15 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 20:39 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-04 08:43 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-04 17:55 +0200
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-04 09:40 -0700
Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-04 10:42 -0700
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