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Re: A Paradox of Equality?

Newsgroups sci.logic
Date 2023-06-03 14:24 -0700
References (7 earlier) <u5g6hg$r4vl$1@solani.org> <d4872593-9a25-4ab8-8c94-1d31d328586cn@googlegroups.com> <0a3c1c44-1dfb-4c95-8135-de6b33984451n@googlegroups.com> <b20fab3e-3256-4fb5-87da-459884d9f2e3n@googlegroups.com> <1e7c01de-eb76-4c7b-89a1-d7564b71fbbdn@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID <476e82a3-0f53-4ace-88a6-2bb0babe9ec5n@googlegroups.com> (permalink)
Subject Re: A Paradox of Equality?
From Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com>

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If you drop involution as a requirement, you might
end up with so called Ockham algebras. Which is
characterized by dual lattice endomorphism.

Somehow a fitting name, reference to Ockham
razor?, since it doesn't require much, except duality
in the form of de Morgan laws for meet and join,

but no de Morgan law for the function f, the
endomorphism. But you see that there is
only one negation:

f(a v b) = f(a) & f(b)
f(a & b) = f(a) & f(b)

And not two negations as here in Dan-O-Matik:

a v b = g(f(a) & f(b))
a & b = g(f(a) v f(b))

This could make a dent.

Mild Shock schrieb am Samstag, 3. Juni 2023 um 23:12:06 UTC+2:
> The proper de Morgan rules are interesting for 
> mathematics and lattice theory, since one can 
> find lattices that satisfy the de Morgan rules, 
> 
> including involution, but do not satisfy these 
> rules that are part of "material implication". Namely: 
> 
> quasi-boolean algebras 
> ¬x ∨ x = 1 (law of the excluded middle), and 
> ¬x ∧ x = 0 (law of noncontradiction) 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Morgan_algebra 
> 
> Which is quite interesting, since it has nevertheless 
> involution aka double negation elimination. But in 
> the setting of minimal logic, double negation elimination 
> 
> implies both (law of the excluded middle) and 
> (law of noncontradiction). In minimal logic we can 
> also add either, (law of the excluded middle) or 
> 
> (law of noncontradiction), whereas a quasi-boolean 
> algebra collapses into a boolean algebra, if one of 
> the two is added.
> Mild Shock schrieb am Samstag, 3. Juni 2023 um 22:56:34 UTC+2: 
> > The rules you implemented are even not part 
> > of the square of opposition, nor part of de Morgan, 
> > you implemented some replacement rules, the 
> > 
> > balance of these rules is that they add two negation 
> > signs, thats why they are clumsy: 
> > 
> > /* Replacement Rules */ 
> > EXIST(x):A(x) ~~> ~ALL(x):~A(x) 
> > ALL(x):A(x) ~~> ~EXIST(x):~A(x) 
> > 
> > The square of opposition has these 4 rules, 
> > the balance of these rules are that they remove 
> > two negations, or keep the number of negations the same: 
> > 
> > ~EXIST(x):~A(x) ~~> ALL(x):A(x) 
> > ~ALL(x):~A(x) ~~> EXIST(x):A(x) 
> > ~EXIST(x):A(x) ~~> ALL(x):~A(x) 
> > ~ALL(x):A(x) ~~> EXIST(x):~A(x) 
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_of_opposition 
> > 
> > Two of them are de Morgan. The de Morgan has these 
> > 4 rules. The balance of these rules is that they 
> > always keep the number of negations the same: 
> > 
> > ALL(x):~A(x) ~~> ~EXIST(x):A(x) 
> > EXIST(x):~A(x) ~~> ~ALL(x):A(x) 
> > ~EXIST(x):A(x) ~~> ALL(x):~A(x) 
> > ~ALL(x):A(x) ~~> EXIST(x):~A(x) 
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Morgan%27s_laws 
> > 
> > So you picked the worst inference rules, those 
> > that add negation signs. Whereas for classical 
> > logic there exist inference rules that remove 
> > 
> > negation signs or keep the number of negation 
> > signs constant. Well Shit Happens! 
> > Mild Shock schrieb am Samstag, 3. Juni 2023 um 22:49:06 UTC+2: 
> > > Its pretty obvious that they are clumsy nonsense. 
> > > For example you implement only two rules: 
> > > 
> > > EXIST(x):A(x) ~~> ~ALL(x):~A(x) 
> > > ALL(x):A(x) ~~~> ~EXIST(x):~A(x) 
> > > 
> > > But the Greeks where already discussing the 
> > > square of opposition. Which hat 4 differnent 
> > > 
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_of_opposition 
> > > 
> > > formulas to start with and not only two. 
> > > Notice something dumbo? So it wouldn't 
> > > 
> > > cost you much to allow the end user to 
> > > additional perform the following operations: 
> > > 
> > > a) If the end user clicks on a negation sign ~ 
> > > in front of an EXIST, this rule fires: 
> > > 
> > > ~EXIST(x):A(x) ~~> ALL(x):~A(x) 
> > > 
> > > b) If the end user clicks on a negation sign ~ 
> > > in front of an ALL, this rule fires: 
> > > 
> > > ~ALL(x):A(x) ~~> EXIST(x):~A(x) 
> > > 
> > > Hope this Helps! 
> > > 
> > > Dan Christensen schrieb am Samstag, 3. Juni 2023 um 22:27:57 UTC+2: 
> > > > > They are clumsy nonsense.

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Thread

A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 10:33 -0700
  Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 11:02 -0700
    Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 11:17 -0700
      Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 11:47 -0700
        Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 11:57 -0700
        Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 12:37 -0700
  Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 11:13 -0700
    Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 11:20 -0700
      Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 11:42 -0700
        Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 12:14 -0700
      Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 11:56 -0700
        Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 11:58 -0700
          Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 12:08 -0700
            Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 12:25 -0700
    Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 11:26 -0700
      Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-03 21:12 +0200
        Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-03 21:20 +0200
        Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 12:27 -0700
          Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-03 21:41 +0200
          Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-03 21:41 +0200
            Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 13:02 -0700
              Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-03 22:07 +0200
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 13:27 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 13:49 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 13:56 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 14:12 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 14:24 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 19:24 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-04 06:46 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-04 06:47 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-04 06:51 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-04 09:33 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-04 12:22 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-04 13:48 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-04 14:38 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-04 15:29 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-04 17:20 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-04 18:23 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 01:31 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 02:55 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 08:22 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-05 19:47 +0200
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 11:59 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-05 21:49 +0200
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 13:39 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 12:32 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 12:39 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 13:03 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 13:09 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 13:14 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 14:34 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 15:04 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 15:14 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 15:26 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 16:33 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 14:22 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 15:06 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 17:13 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 17:26 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 17:36 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 17:47 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 17:54 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 18:00 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 18:02 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 18:05 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 18:35 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 22:38 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 22:47 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 22:58 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-06 07:35 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-06 09:11 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-06 10:08 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-08 01:25 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-08 08:09 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-08 11:09 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-08 11:35 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-08 11:36 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-09 12:51 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-09 13:12 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 18:17 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 18:44 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 14:09 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 14:32 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 17:42 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 18:32 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 19:04 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 19:15 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 20:39 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-04 08:43 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-04 17:55 +0200
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-04 09:40 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-04 10:42 -0700

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