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Re: A Paradox of Equality?

From Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm>
Newsgroups sci.logic
Subject Re: A Paradox of Equality?
Date 2023-06-05 21:49 +0200
Message-ID <u5le8s$tpjt$1@solani.org> (permalink)
References (12 earlier) <edec0db3-0f0e-4e78-8267-52548b1dc674n@googlegroups.com> <982abeab-52f1-4942-b877-e7bc822e21f6n@googlegroups.com> <d992cfe4-8e05-4bcc-a62a-5712061bf041n@googlegroups.com> <u5l73e$us46$1@solani.org> <15acd17e-9299-4119-8e7a-3e2551580002n@googlegroups.com>

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Get an education man!

Your nonsensical Generalized Drinker Paradox Nonsense
doesn't work in second order logic, since in second
order logic you cannot form:

r e r
http://www.dcproof.com/UniversalSet.htm

In second order logic you can only form:

x e X

Where the left hand side is a "element" variable
and the right hand side is a "set" variable.

Also what makes you think Terrence Tao doesn't
use second order logic in his Real Analysis Books?
He also uses the lower case and upper case convention.

Dan Christensen schrieb:
> On Monday, June 5, 2023 at 1:47:29 PM UTC-4, Mild Shock wrote:
> 
>> Dan Christensen schrieb:
>>> On Monday, June 5, 2023 at 5:55:12 AM UTC-4, Mild Shock wrote:
>>>> Using ordinary propositional 2nd order logic, we can prove:
>>>>
>>>
>>> Who uses 2nd order logic? I don't think you will find it any math textbooks. They do tend, however, to use a lot of set theory instead.
>>>
> 
>> Terrence Tao says the contrary:
>>
>> In order to prevent this post from being totally
>> devoid of mathematical content, I’ll mention that
>> I recently came across the phenomenon of nonfirstorderisability
>> in mathematical logic: there are perfectly meaningful
>> and useful statements in mathematics which cannot be
>> phrased within the confines of first order logic
>> (combined with the language of set theory, or any
>> other standard mathematical theory); one must use
>> a more powerful language such as second order logic
>> instead. This phenomenon is very well known among
>> logicians, but I hadn’t learned about it until
>> very recently, and had naively assumed that first
>> order logic sufficed for “everyday” usage of mathematics.
>> https://terrytao.wordpress.com/2007/08/27/printer-friendly-css-and-nonfirstorderizability/#more-172
>>
> 
> Interesting.
> 
>> The Drinker Paradox is also such an instance.
> 
> On the contrary, as we have seen here repeatedly, using ordinary set theory, we have:
> 
> EXIST(x):[x in D => Q(D)] for arbitrary set D and proposition Q regardless of its truth value.
> 
> For Smullyan's original Drinker Principle setup, where D is the set of all drinkers, and Q is the proposition ALL(y):y in D.
> 
> Although Smullyan's original informal proof makes no mention of a pub (as above), it could be better formalized as:
> 
> EXIST(x):[x in D => P=D] where D is the set of all those people drinking in a given pub and P is the set of all people in that pub.
> 
> Dan
> 
> Download my DC Proof 2.0 freeware at http://www.dcproof.com
> Visit my Math Blog at http://www.dcproof.wordpress.com
> 

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Thread

A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 10:33 -0700
  Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 11:02 -0700
    Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 11:17 -0700
      Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 11:47 -0700
        Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 11:57 -0700
        Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 12:37 -0700
  Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 11:13 -0700
    Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 11:20 -0700
      Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 11:42 -0700
        Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 12:14 -0700
      Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 11:56 -0700
        Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 11:58 -0700
          Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 12:08 -0700
            Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 12:25 -0700
    Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 11:26 -0700
      Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-03 21:12 +0200
        Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-03 21:20 +0200
        Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 12:27 -0700
          Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-03 21:41 +0200
          Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-03 21:41 +0200
            Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 13:02 -0700
              Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-03 22:07 +0200
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 13:27 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 13:49 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 13:56 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 14:12 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 14:24 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 19:24 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-04 06:46 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-04 06:47 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-04 06:51 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-04 09:33 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-04 12:22 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-04 13:48 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-04 14:38 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-04 15:29 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-04 17:20 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-04 18:23 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 01:31 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 02:55 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 08:22 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-05 19:47 +0200
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 11:59 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-05 21:49 +0200
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 13:39 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 12:32 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 12:39 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 13:03 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 13:09 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 13:14 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 14:34 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 15:04 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 15:14 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 15:26 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 16:33 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 14:22 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 15:06 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 17:13 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 17:26 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 17:36 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 17:47 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 17:54 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 18:00 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 18:02 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 18:05 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 18:35 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 22:38 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 22:47 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 22:58 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-06 07:35 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-06 09:11 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-06 10:08 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-08 01:25 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-08 08:09 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-08 11:09 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-08 11:35 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-08 11:36 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-09 12:51 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-09 13:12 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 18:17 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 18:44 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 14:09 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 14:32 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 17:42 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 18:32 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 19:04 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-16 05:53 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-16 16:59 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-16 17:07 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-16 21:55 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 19:15 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 20:39 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-04 08:43 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-04 17:55 +0200
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-04 09:40 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-04 10:42 -0700

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