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Re: A Paradox of Equality?

Newsgroups sci.logic
Date 2023-06-05 18:00 -0700
References (22 earlier) <1f944d12-b92e-416f-ae47-90557398ee51n@googlegroups.com> <42b7a16e-c932-4b7e-a6d0-2117e446b289n@googlegroups.com> <54807f43-7b14-4f43-8018-8bee466f0bdan@googlegroups.com> <90c89e89-760c-48b4-8fad-778117af1506n@googlegroups.com> <ac8b58f5-8b43-41c4-bac0-eef13b0a6c96n@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID <64ef9a51-ff49-4e72-90e9-a574789cec38n@googlegroups.com> (permalink)
Subject Re: A Paradox of Equality?
From Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com>

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You didnt consider that math text books are often 
based on second order logic ideas of sets.

There are many challenges in translating this
to first order. Namely:
- Second order logic is two sorted, first order
 logic is only single sorted
- Second order logic does need set theory, it
has a native membership, first order logic
needs a set theory
- Second order logic does have a Russell Paradox
for its native membership, first order logic
set theory is typically bugged by Russell Paradox

But there is nevertheless hope and maybe light at the
end of the tunnel. You could read why Quine thinks
second order logic is first order logic in 

sheep clothes. Maybe this could help in producing
a version of the Drinker Paradox that does make so
many logical errors.

Dan Christensen schrieb am Dienstag, 6. Juni 2023 um 02:54:02 UTC+2:
> On Monday, June 5, 2023 at 8:26:41 PM UTC-4, Mild Shock wrote: 
> > You made an error when you translated the Drinker 
> > Paradox from second order logic.
> I made no error. I used ordinary math textbook logic and set theory, not second order logic, i.e. no quantifying over logical propositions.
> Second order 
> > logic is two sorted. It is a multi sorted logic. 
> > 
> > It has these two sorts: 
> > 
> > x, y, z, etc..: Elements or individuals (the 1st order objects) 
> > X, Y, Z, etc..: Sets or predications. (the 2nd order objects) 
> > 
> > Using the native membership between the two, you 
> > are only allowed to form: 
> > 
> > x e X 
> >
> Use the rules of syntax of statements in ZFC, show that x in x is not a wff 
> 
> See the rules of syntax here: https://encyclopediaofmath.org/wiki/ZFC (2nd paragraph)
> Dan 
> 
> Download my DC Proof 2.0 freeware at http://www.dcproof.com 
> Visit my Math Blog at http://www.dcproof.wordpress.com

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A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 10:33 -0700
  Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 11:02 -0700
    Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 11:17 -0700
      Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 11:47 -0700
        Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 11:57 -0700
        Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 12:37 -0700
  Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 11:13 -0700
    Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 11:20 -0700
      Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 11:42 -0700
        Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 12:14 -0700
      Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 11:56 -0700
        Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 11:58 -0700
          Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 12:08 -0700
            Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 12:25 -0700
    Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 11:26 -0700
      Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-03 21:12 +0200
        Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-03 21:20 +0200
        Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 12:27 -0700
          Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-03 21:41 +0200
          Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-03 21:41 +0200
            Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 13:02 -0700
              Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-03 22:07 +0200
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 13:27 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 13:49 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 13:56 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 14:12 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-03 14:24 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-03 19:24 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-04 06:46 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-04 06:47 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-04 06:51 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-04 09:33 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-04 12:22 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-04 13:48 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-04 14:38 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-04 15:29 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-04 17:20 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-04 18:23 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 01:31 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 02:55 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 08:22 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-05 19:47 +0200
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 11:59 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-05 21:49 +0200
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 13:39 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 12:32 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 12:39 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 13:03 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 13:09 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 13:14 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 14:34 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 15:04 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 15:14 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 15:26 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 16:33 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 14:22 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 15:06 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 17:13 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 17:26 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 17:36 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 17:47 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 17:54 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 18:00 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 18:02 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 18:05 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 18:35 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 22:38 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 22:47 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 22:58 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-06 07:35 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-06 09:11 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-06 10:08 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-08 01:25 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-08 08:09 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-08 11:09 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-08 11:35 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-08 11:36 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-09 12:51 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-09 13:12 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 18:17 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 18:44 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 14:09 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 14:32 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 17:42 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 18:32 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 19:04 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-16 05:53 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-16 16:59 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2023-06-16 17:07 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-16 21:55 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-05 19:15 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-05 20:39 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-04 08:43 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2023-06-04 17:55 +0200
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Dan Christensen <Dan_Christensen@sympatico.ca> - 2023-06-04 09:40 -0700
                Re: A Paradox of Equality? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-06-04 10:42 -0700

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