Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #87373

Re: Redundancy/Survival

From TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.misc
Subject Re: Redundancy/Survival
Date 2026-06-02 16:19 +0000
Organization The Null Device Restoration Society
Message-ID <2237a70cbaafcb587eb9@dev.null> (permalink)
References (9 earlier) <10vaorr$3r8c4$1@dont-email.me> <10vk256$27ab8$5@dont-email.me> <10vl3kr$2ii0i$1@dont-email.me> <9rg2fmxp12.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <10vmvit$325bn$1@dont-email.me>

Show all headers | View raw

>On Tue, 2 Jun 2026 12:15:25 -0400, InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> wrote:
>On 6/2/2026 4:28 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2026-06-02 01:12, InterLinked wrote:
>>> On 6/1/2026 9:40 AM, Rich wrote:
>>>> InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> wrote:
>>>>> though for some reason I can only negotiate 33.6k.
>>>>
>>>> 33.6 is as high as you can negioate using digital to audio and audio to
>>>> digital signal transmission (i.e., standard "modem" working) due to the
>>>> underlying digitizing rate for all phone calls by the carriers.
>>>  >
>>>>> so something about the fiber arrangement seems to be interfering with
>>>>> V.90/V.92 negotiation.)
>>>>
>>>> Obtaining speeds higher than 33.6 requires:
>>>> 1) copper between the modem and the dmarc in the exchange
>>>> 2) the dmark in the switch being one that can have the analog to
>>>> digital converter at the end of the copper turned off.
>>>>
>>>> The higher speeds work by both ends driving the copper as if it were a
>>>> digital baseband network link (i.e., somewhat akin to driving ethernet
>>>> signaling over the line).
>>>>
>>>> But, with any analog to digital converters in between mean you can't
>>>> get better than 33.6.  And all the "fiber to your home, with a little
>>>> box that drives your in house copper as if it were still connected to
>>>> POTS" means there is a small analog to digital converter in the way
>>>> (and no one decided to offer the ability to switch it off and drive the
>>>> copper as digital baseband).
>>>
>>> Yes, I'm aware of the 33.6 ceiling with conversions.
>>>
>>> I don't think I mentioned it before, but I can get 36000 (not 33600)
>>> when calling certain modems. I've gotten it a few times when calling
>>> the dial-up ISP here in the US (there is really only one, no matter
>>> which reseller you use), but usually just 33600.
>>>
>>> That demonstrates I can get speeds > 33.6k, but usually the
>>> negotiation fails (I can hear it too, it's not happy trying to
>>> negotiate V.90/V.92).
>>>
>>> My point was that copper POTS customers can get speeds in the 40s/50s
>>> calling the same service, no problem at all, but I'm not able to do
>>> that with my service being delivered over fiber. Dial-up Internet
>>> speeds are actually *hampered* by fiber... how ironic is that?
>>
>> Yes. The signal was digitized at your exchange, then transmitted to the
>> remote exchange. which had a bank of signal processors that would
>> process the digital signal instead of a modem, and get you that V90.
>>
>> I worked for a telco that did precisely this (using the 5ESSS and the
>> Lucent MAX TNT) around year 2000.
>>
>> With fibre and VoIP you have a problem: you are probably using a codec.
>> Maybe a lossy one.
>
>No, it's G.711 ulaw, as it should be, same as TDM.
>
>I can dial up at 33.6k and it will stay up for hours. Quality of the
>connection itself is not the issue. I think there is some "audio" part
>of the V.92 handshake that is getting tripped up by the ONT or something
>like that.
>
>>> So from my (consumer) perspective, fiber is a loser. It's inferior
>>> quality and connectivity and it doesn't work in a power outage.
>>> There's already coax in my area for CATV so the fiber was redundant to
>>> begin with for broadband. They crippled our phone service in favor of
>>> another expensive[1] and unregulated service... but it's great for the
>>> telco! Now the burden - and cost - of powering phone service is on the
>>> consumer.
>>
>> Well, if you want to use dial up modem, you are using the wrong technology.
>
>I don't have a choice, there's no copper here, I am forced to use fiber.

A practical thing to check is whether the modem is repeatedly trying the PCM
part of V.90/V.92 and then falling back.  On a lot of modems the CONNECT banner
alone is not enough; the extended result/log will show the final modulation and
sometimes the reason for the retrain/fallback.

If you only need the link to be boring and reliable, I would try an init string
that disables V.90/V.92 and forces V.34.  That avoids the PCM negotiation
entirely and turns the problem into ordinary analog modem over G.711.  You may
lose the occasional 36000 connect, but you also avoid the failed negotiation
dance.

If you want to chase the higher rate, look for anything in the ONT/ATA path that
is meant to "help" voice: echo cancellation, VAD/silence suppression, comfort
noise, gain control, fax/modem detection, T.38-ish switching, or impedance/level
settings.  G.711 is necessary, but it is not always sufficient if the access box
is still doing voice processing around it.

-- 
TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null>
"I survived the great rm -rf / rehearsal and all I got was this .signature."

Back to comp.os.linux.misc | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 02:21 -0400
  Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 08:46 +0200
    Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-26 09:49 +0200
      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:47 -0400
      Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:25 +0200
      Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-26 09:53 +0000
    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:38 -0400
      Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:35 +0200
      Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-26 22:09 +0000
        Re: Redundancy/Survival John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 16:17 -0700
          Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-27 00:02 +0000
            Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-27 00:11 -0400
              Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-28 10:32 +0200
            Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 08:41 +0100
              Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-27 11:04 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:31 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:18 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:42 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 15:01 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 21:34 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 11:07 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 12:55 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 12:14 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 13:36 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 13:26 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:36 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 17:24 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:37 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:36 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 22:34 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 04:29 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:09 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 23:29 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-05-31 21:45 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:15 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 18:53 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-02 01:46 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 03:01 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:12 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:16 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:09 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 21:26 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 02:58 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 11:11 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 22:15 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 22:32 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 02:33 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-29 04:30 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:34 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:36 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 00:38 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-05-31 05:09 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 03:10 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-05-31 07:14 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 00:49 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-01 04:57 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 03:20 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 19:45 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 18:30 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:27 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 10:49 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 13:16 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 00:00 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:35 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:21 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 18:25 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 21:36 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:06 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 19:00 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-02 17:44 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 17:54 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 16:57 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 21:02 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:13 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:10 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 22:29 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:17 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 03:50 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 01:07 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:47 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 17:36 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:33 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:25 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 02:12 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:26 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 17:31 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:49 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:37 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-30 09:09 +1000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:17 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-31 07:33 +1000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 00:14 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-31 12:09 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 00:51 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:28 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-31 12:58 +0200
              Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-27 20:51 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-27 14:02 -0700
                Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-28 08:54 +1000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-28 05:04 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:54 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-05-28 09:15 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:29 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:45 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-29 02:50 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:17 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:48 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 04:25 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:20 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-30 14:16 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-30 04:00 +0000
          Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 23:41 -0400
            Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:09 +0100
              Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:51 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-28 17:08 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 22:14 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 04:41 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:53 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:32 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:19 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:52 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:46 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-03 00:27 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 03:26 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 03:03 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:08 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:55 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:39 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 13:21 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:57 +0000
        Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 22:39 -0400
          Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:10 +0100
            Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-28 09:05 +1000
              Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 08:19 +0100
            Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:52 -0400
              Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:20 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 20:34 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-05-28 21:07 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:40 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 19:12 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:28 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 12:15 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:19 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:30 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:29 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 16:49 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-06-02 17:38 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 15:48 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 00:39 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 17:55 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:03 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 12:22 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:36 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:39 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 00:48 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 01:21 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:08 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:41 +0000
              Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:23 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 23:00 +0200
  Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-26 09:44 +0200
    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:45 -0400
    Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:38 +0200
  Re: Redundancy/Survival "Worst Case" <fritz@spamexpire-202605.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2026-05-26 17:21 +0200

csiph-web