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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #87364

Re: Redundancy/Survival

From TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.misc
Subject Re: Redundancy/Survival
Date 2026-06-02 10:49 +0000
Organization The Null Device Restoration Society
Message-ID <30d97d5998333b57adee@dev.null> (permalink)
References (10 earlier) <UYicndKFJtzjuIT3nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> <10vitqf$1us3j$1@dont-email.me> <j2t0fmxplt.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <10vkj3a$2dpu1$1@dont-email.me> <2i61fmxegm.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>

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>On Mon, 1 Jun 2026 22:27:14 +0200, "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
>wrote:
>On 2026-06-01 20:30, Rich wrote:
>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2026-06-01 05:20, Rich wrote:
>>>> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>>>>>     I've EXPERIENCED tower networks Going DOWN ...  they have maybe
>>>>>     three days worth of power backup.  Then it's 1826 again.
>>>>>
>>>>>     But copper KEEPS WORKING. Simple and sure.
>>>>
>>>> Check that bet one winter when the ice storms pull down the mains
>>>> cables powering your local copper exchange, and the snow is deep enough
>>>> that the fuel trucks can't get to the exchange before its backup
>>>> generators consume the diesel in their tanks.
>>>>
>>>> The copper *will* also stop working then as well.
>>>>
>>>> It only appears to keep working because there were several layers of
>>>> redundancy backed in by the regulations.
>>>>
>>>> But those regulations are being sidelined now.  Without those
>>>> regulations keeping the companies honest, the old POTS that "just kept
>>>> working" almost all the time will become just as flakey and offline at
>>>> the slightest provocation as the other options.
>>>>
>>>> A *lot* of expense was spent to make the old copper POTS just "keep
>>>> working", not a bit of it "just working" was because it was "copper".
>>>> It was all because the companies operating it were kept whipped into
>>>> shape by the regulators and forced to pay for the upkeep needed.
>>>>
>>>> If you applied the identical regulations to fiber, it too would (and
>>>> could) be just as much a "it KEEPS WORKING" system as the old copper
>>>> POTS system was.  All the fiber would need to be all but identical is
>>>> for a pair of power conductors (yes copper wires, since glass happens
>>>> to be an electrical insulator) to be run along with each bundle, and
>>>> for the demarc terminals in each home (plus one of the phone handsets)
>>>> to be powered from the fiber bundle power conductors.
>>>
>>> That would not happen.
>>
>> Agreed.  I highly doubt such would ever occur to the regulators as
>> well.  My point is, it would be /possible/ for the fiber bundle to
>> carry a single copper pair used only to provide the small power
>> necessary to power the end point just like old style analog POTS phones
>> were powered by the line from the switch.
>
>Thing is, they would have to power the ONT or the router, and do so for
>all customers the full time, even if they are not using their phones
>actively at the moment. That is no small power, it can be 2..3 amps at
>12 volts per client (based on the ratings of the power wall wart of my
>router.
>
>That is not a small power. Orders of magnitude over what POTS needs: all
>houses not actively using the phone draw no power at all.
>
>>
>>> What could happen is mandating the router or ONT have a battery backup
>>> included, or at least optional. As simple as installing a bunch of AA
>>> batteries.
>>
>> Yep, that's already what Verizon does with their FIOS service.  One
>> gets either a lead acid battery (UPS style battery) that will power the
>> ONT for "some time" on a power fail, or one gets a rather large box
>> that holds something like 12 D sized alkaline cell batteries as the
>> "backup power" should mains be out.  I'm not sure if the different
>> types arrive based on price level purchased, or just on "previously,
>> they privided this, now they provide that".
>>

The wall wart rating is a ceiling, not the normal draw, but the basic problem is
still real.

A plain POTS set is almost unfairly cheap to keep alive. On-hook, it is
basically a supervised loop drawing almost nothing at the subscriber end; off-
hook it is tens of milliamps from a central battery plant that was built,
maintained, and regulated around that job.

An ONT plus router is a different animal. Even if the ONT idles well below its
adapter rating, it is still active electronics at every customer site. If the
service needs voice, routing, WiFi, or an ATA alive during an outage, then the
backup problem has moved from one hardened central office to a pile of little
boxes in houses, closets, and garages.

That is why the old system felt magic. It was not the copper. It was the
engineering assumption that the network had to power the endpoint and keep doing
so when the customer's mains failed. Fiber can be made reliable too, but only if
the same requirement is written down and paid for instead of being waved away as
an optional battery accessory.

-- 
TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null>
"I survived the great rm -rf / rehearsal and all I got was this .signature."

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Thread

Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 02:21 -0400
  Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 08:46 +0200
    Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-26 09:49 +0200
      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:47 -0400
      Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:25 +0200
      Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-26 09:53 +0000
    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:38 -0400
      Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:35 +0200
      Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-26 22:09 +0000
        Re: Redundancy/Survival John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 16:17 -0700
          Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-27 00:02 +0000
            Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-27 00:11 -0400
              Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-28 10:32 +0200
            Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 08:41 +0100
              Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-27 11:04 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:31 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:18 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:42 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 15:01 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 21:34 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 11:07 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 12:55 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 12:14 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 13:36 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 13:26 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:36 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 17:24 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:37 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:36 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 22:34 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 04:29 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:09 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 23:29 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-05-31 21:45 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:15 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 18:53 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-02 01:46 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 03:01 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:12 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:16 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:09 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 21:26 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:48 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:35 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 17:25 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 19:24 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 20:04 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 22:25 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 02:58 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 11:11 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 22:15 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 22:32 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 02:33 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:57 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:40 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-29 04:30 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:34 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:36 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 00:38 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-05-31 05:09 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 03:10 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-05-31 07:14 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 00:49 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-01 04:57 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 03:20 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 19:45 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 18:30 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:27 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 10:49 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 13:16 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 00:00 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:43 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:35 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:21 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 18:25 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 21:36 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:06 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:32 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:43 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 13:05 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:14 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:31 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:43 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 19:28 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 20:10 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 22:27 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:13 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:48 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-03 18:58 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:46 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 19:00 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-06-02 17:44 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 17:54 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 16:57 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 21:02 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:41 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:13 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:47 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:49 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:10 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 22:29 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:52 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:49 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 11:56 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:17 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 03:50 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 01:07 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:47 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 17:36 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:33 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:25 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 02:12 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:03 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:06 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:02 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-03 18:00 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 22:31 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:26 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 17:31 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:49 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:37 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-30 09:09 +1000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:17 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-31 07:33 +1000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 00:14 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-31 12:09 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 00:51 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:28 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-31 12:58 +0200
              Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-27 20:51 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-27 14:02 -0700
                Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-28 08:54 +1000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-28 05:04 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:54 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-05-28 09:15 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:29 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:45 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-29 02:50 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:17 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:48 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 04:25 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:20 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-30 14:16 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-30 04:00 +0000
          Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 23:41 -0400
            Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:09 +0100
              Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:51 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-28 17:08 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 22:14 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 04:41 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:53 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:32 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:19 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:52 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:46 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-03 00:27 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 03:26 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 03:03 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:12 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:08 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:33 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-03 14:45 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:08 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:55 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:39 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 13:21 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-03 02:57 +0000
        Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 22:39 -0400
          Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:10 +0100
            Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-28 09:05 +1000
              Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 08:19 +0100
            Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:52 -0400
              Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:20 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 20:34 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-05-28 21:07 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:40 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 19:12 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:28 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 12:15 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:19 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:30 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:29 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 16:49 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-03 12:18 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-06-02 17:38 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 15:48 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 00:39 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 17:55 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:03 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 12:22 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:36 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:39 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-03 00:48 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 01:21 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:08 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:41 +0000
              Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:23 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 23:00 +0200
  Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-26 09:44 +0200
    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:45 -0400
    Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:38 +0200
  Re: Redundancy/Survival "Worst Case" <fritz@spamexpire-202605.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2026-05-26 17:21 +0200

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