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Re: Redundancy/Survival

From "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.misc
Subject Re: Redundancy/Survival
Date 2026-06-02 10:28 +0200
Organization Tebibyte_Retro_Gaming
Message-ID <9rg2fmxp12.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> (permalink)
References (7 earlier) <10v8tsh$3ajmv$2@dont-email.me> <UYicndWFJtyzQoX3nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> <10vaorr$3r8c4$1@dont-email.me> <10vk256$27ab8$5@dont-email.me> <10vl3kr$2ii0i$1@dont-email.me>

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On 2026-06-02 01:12, InterLinked wrote:
> On 6/1/2026 9:40 AM, Rich wrote:
>> InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> wrote:
>>> though for some reason I can only negotiate 33.6k.
>>
>> 33.6 is as high as you can negioate using digital to audio and audio to
>> digital signal transmission (i.e., standard "modem" working) due to the
>> underlying digitizing rate for all phone calls by the carriers.
>  >
>>> so something about the fiber arrangement seems to be interfering with
>>> V.90/V.92 negotiation.)
>>
>> Obtaining speeds higher than 33.6 requires:
>> 1) copper between the modem and the dmarc in the exchange
>> 2) the dmark in the switch being one that can have the analog to
>> digital converter at the end of the copper turned off.
>>
>> The higher speeds work by both ends driving the copper as if it were a
>> digital baseband network link (i.e., somewhat akin to driving ethernet
>> signaling over the line).
>>
>> But, with any analog to digital converters in between mean you can't
>> get better than 33.6.  And all the "fiber to your home, with a little
>> box that drives your in house copper as if it were still connected to
>> POTS" means there is a small analog to digital converter in the way
>> (and no one decided to offer the ability to switch it off and drive the
>> copper as digital baseband).
> 
> Yes, I'm aware of the 33.6 ceiling with conversions.
> 
> I don't think I mentioned it before, but I can get 36000 (not 33600) 
> when calling certain modems. I've gotten it a few times when calling the 
> dial-up ISP here in the US (there is really only one, no matter which 
> reseller you use), but usually just 33600.
> 
> That demonstrates I can get speeds > 33.6k, but usually the negotiation 
> fails (I can hear it too, it's not happy trying to negotiate V.90/V.92).
> 
> My point was that copper POTS customers can get speeds in the 40s/50s 
> calling the same service, no problem at all, but I'm not able to do that 
> with my service being delivered over fiber. Dial-up Internet speeds are 
> actually *hampered* by fiber... how ironic is that?

Yes. The signal was digitized at your exchange, then transmitted to the 
remote exchange. which had a bank of signal processors that would 
process the digital signal instead of a modem, and get you that V90.

I worked for a telco that did precisely this (using the 5ESSS and the 
Lucent MAX TNT) around year 2000.

With fibre and VoIP you have a problem: you are probably using a codec. 
Maybe a lossy one.



> So from my (consumer) perspective, fiber is a loser. It's inferior 
> quality and connectivity and it doesn't work in a power outage. There's 
> already coax in my area for CATV so the fiber was redundant to begin 
> with for broadband. They crippled our phone service in favor of another 
> expensive[1] and unregulated service... but it's great for the telco! 
> Now the burden - and cost - of powering phone service is on the consumer.

Well, if you want to use dial up modem, you are using the wrong technology.

> 
> The only scenario in which fiber wins in my book would be where your 
> copper line is fed out of a SLC-96 that doesn't have a reliable power 
> supply in emergencies, in which case if you happen to have enough backup 
> power yourself, fiber would be better since it's passive (GPON).
> 
> [1] Oh, and even though my service is arguably inferior to copper, I 
> don't pay any less than copper customers; still all the high taxes/fees 
> associated with regulated service (which I have intentionally). So it's 
> not copper that's expensive per se, it's regulated phone service 
> regardless of technology.


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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Thread

Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 02:21 -0400
  Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 08:46 +0200
    Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-26 09:49 +0200
      Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:47 -0400
      Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:25 +0200
      Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-26 09:53 +0000
    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:38 -0400
      Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:35 +0200
      Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-26 22:09 +0000
        Re: Redundancy/Survival John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 16:17 -0700
          Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-27 00:02 +0000
            Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-27 00:11 -0400
              Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-28 10:32 +0200
            Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 08:41 +0100
              Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-27 11:04 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:31 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:18 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:42 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 15:01 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 21:34 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 11:07 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 12:55 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 12:14 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 13:36 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 13:26 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:36 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 17:24 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:37 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 19:36 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-29 22:34 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 04:29 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:09 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 23:29 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-05-31 21:45 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:15 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 18:53 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-02 01:46 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 03:01 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:16 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-02 02:58 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 11:11 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-05-29 04:30 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:34 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:36 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 00:38 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-05-31 05:09 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 03:10 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-05-31 07:14 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 00:49 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-01 04:57 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 03:20 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 19:45 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 18:30 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:27 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 10:49 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 13:16 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 19:00 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:17 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 03:50 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 01:07 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:47 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 17:36 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:33 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:26 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 17:31 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:49 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-30 09:09 +1000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:17 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-31 07:33 +1000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-31 00:14 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-31 12:09 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-01 00:51 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:28 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-31 12:58 +0200
              Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-27 20:51 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-05-27 14:02 -0700
                Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-28 08:54 +1000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-05-28 05:04 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:54 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-05-28 09:15 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 12:29 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-28 13:45 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-29 02:50 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:17 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:48 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-30 04:25 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-30 13:20 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-30 14:16 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-05-30 04:00 +0000
          Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 23:41 -0400
            Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:09 +0100
              Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:51 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-28 17:08 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 22:14 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 04:41 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 01:53 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:32 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:19 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:52 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:08 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 22:55 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:39 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 13:21 +0200
        Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 22:39 -0400
          Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-27 14:10 +0100
            Re: Redundancy/Survival not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2026-05-28 09:05 +1000
              Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 08:19 +0100
            Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 03:52 -0400
              Re: Redundancy/Survival The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-05-28 09:20 +0100
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-28 20:34 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-05-28 21:07 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:40 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-01 19:12 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 10:28 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 12:15 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:19 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:30 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-06-02 17:38 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 15:48 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 17:55 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:03 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival InterLinked <usenet@phreaknet.org> - 2026-06-02 12:22 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival TheLastSysop <thelastsysop@dev.null> - 2026-06-02 16:36 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-02 18:39 +0200
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 01:21 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-29 02:08 -0400
                Re: Redundancy/Survival rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-05-29 06:41 +0000
              Re: Redundancy/Survival Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-06-01 13:23 +0000
                Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-01 23:00 +0200
  Re: Redundancy/Survival Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-05-26 09:44 +0200
    Re: Redundancy/Survival c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-05-26 04:45 -0400
    Re: Redundancy/Survival "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-05-26 11:38 +0200
  Re: Redundancy/Survival "Worst Case" <fritz@spamexpire-202605.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2026-05-26 17:21 +0200

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