Re: about electronics

From	Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Newsgroups	sci.electronics.design
Subject	Re: about electronics
Date	2026-05-03 17:53 -0700
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<10t8qnc$3afs0$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <h9qruk5ckr5ns4bmvneaksp0dgaei3bdk3@4ax.com> <10srctv$3g7fi$1@dont-email.me> <10sre1d$3go58$1@dont-email.me> <10t8f29$37966$1@dont-email.me> <ldnfvkhotbtuu3kqae68brvu4stt3hgof0@4ax.com>

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On 5/3/2026 4:54 PM, joegwinn@comcast.net wrote:
> On Sun, 3 May 2026 14:35:00 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 4/28/2026 3:57 PM, Don Y wrote:
>>> On 4/28/2026 3:38 PM, Buzz McCool wrote:
>>>> An interesting ratio. Maybe screens to bench power supplies would be
>>>> a better measure of academic analog electronics rigor as oscopes in
>>>> an educational setting might be the USB type that plugs into a
>>>> computer.
>>>
>>> There's far less demand for electrical engineers.  Too much is
>>> "slap together" from prefabbed modules -- designed by a relative
>>> few people feeding multiple customer products.  And, their efforts
>>> in typical product designs are relatively small (man-hours).
>>>
>>> By contrast, the software/firmware in YOUR product is almost
>>> certainly not the same as in some other product (even if you
>>> leverage something like a Linux kernel).
>>>
>>> Electrical Engineer salaries:  64,511 - 137,087 [$87,988]
>>> Software Engineer:    75,449 - 209,993 [132,417]
>>>
>>> (composite of a variety of market surveys)
>>>
>>> There is downward pressure on pay for entry/early career
>>> EE/SEs and considerable upward pressure on more experienced.
>>
>> A colleague, reading this, asked for more information on this as it
>> applies to his eldest child's college major selection.
>>
>>  From the BLS median US salary and positions (2024), growth (2034) (4%=avg)
>> 				Median Pay	Positions	Growth
>> Software Developer		$131,450	1,895,500	15%
>> CNA				$130,390	  179,200	12%
>> DBA				$123,100	  144,900	 4%
>> Electrical/Electronics Engineer	$118,780	  287,900	 7%
>> Computer Programmer		$ 98,670	  121,200	-6%
>> Network/Sysadm		$ 96,800	  331,500	-4%
>> Web Developer			$ 95,380	  214,900	 7%
> 
> What would be more useful is the quintiles (or deciles) data, not just
> the median, because quintiles quantify the spread.

You end up with an N-dimensional dataset as location (and available positions!)
plays a big role beyond just "skillset".  Pick a region/area and that shifts up
or down significantly.  And then you have to start looking at total
compensation, cost of living, etc.   I.e., numbers alone are a bad way
to pick a career.  The BLS site has more data;  my friend just wanted me
to "talk some sense" into his kid (though likely didn't like my advice!  :> )

Software Developer
10%	$79,850
25%	$103,050
50%	$133,080
75%	$169,000
90%	$211,450

CNA
10%	$79,520
25%	$102,120
50%	$130,390
75%	$164,440
90%	$198,030

DBA
10%	$56,820
25%	$76,100
50%	$104,620
75%	$132,850
90%	$160,890

EE's
10%	$74,670
25%	$87,590
50%	$111,910
75%	$141,630
90%	$175,460

Computer Programmer
10%	$52,190
25%	$71,860
50%	$98,670
75%	$128,960
90%	$162,090

> I also wondered what the difference between programmer and software
> developer might be.

A programmer writes code *to* a specification.  (Sadly, as most
projects don't HAVE formal specifications, it means a programmer
just writes what he *thinks* he should be writing)

A Software Developer *designs* the software solution.  "Architects" the
*model* that will be implemented, chooses the appropriate technologies,
algorithms, etc.

A 3-month bootcamp and I'll bet anyone (even accountants!) can write code
(in whatever language) to satisfy a SPECIFIED set of requirements.  There's
no "thinking" involved, just following someone else's WRITTEN thought
process.  The "Do-this-to-get-that" bootcamp mentality.

E.g., I use VMM to fault in TEXT (from a semipersistent store) "on demand".
A common approach in "big machines"; less common in smaller systems that
just copy a NAND FLASH into RAM and run with that.  This lets me economize
on physical RAM ($$$) by not loading code that isn't used (d'uh!):  Why
load all of the code that lets a user alter settings if he's happy with
the settings that he's already selected???  (All of that is DEAD CODE!)

But, I *know* that the "startup code" in every process will only be
executed ONCE (or, this can easily be imposed on such designs).
So, they "must" linger in the logical memory space even though they
are effectively useless, there.  And, tie up REAL memory (as their
contents *must* be preserved, somewhere -- right??  We don't want to
have to add a backing store just to preserve "read once" memory!)

So, I change the *architecture* of the system so a process *can*
(but is not REQUIRED) tell the system when it has reached a point
the preceding contents of which can be discarded.

A "programmer" likely won't consider CREATING something like this *or*
have access to mechanisms that would support it without the system architect
having put those in place.  A *good* programmer will recognize the value of
EXPLOITING such a mechanism, if available; an "average" programmer will
just focus on getting his code to work (efficiency not an issue likely never
having considered the consequences/costs of HOW he writes his code).

>> And, as I've said, "anyone can write code" so there is comparatively
>> little value placed on that (witness "Programmer", "Web Developer").
>>
>> By way of comparison (no "formal" post-HS education required!):
>> Plumber			$ 62,970	  504,500	 4%
>> Carpenter			$ 59,310	  959,000	 4%
>> Roofer				$ 50,970	  166,700	 6%
>> Auto Mechanic			$ 49,670	  805,600	 4%
>> "Landscaper"			$ 38,470	1,296,400	 4%
>> (i.e., as many positions as Software Developer but clearly no demand!)
>>
>> Physician/Surgeon		$239,200	  839,000	 3%
>> Dentist			$179,210	  149300	 4%
>> Lawyer			$151,160	  864,800	 4%
>> Accountant			$ 81,680 	1,579,800	 5%
>>
> These need quintiles as well.  The plumber median number looks like an
> apprentice.

Plumber, Pipefitter, Steamfitter
10%	$40,670
25%	$48,860
50%	$62,970
75%	$81,900
90%	$105,150

Note they (BLS) aren't consistent about how things are categorized (and I
have no desire to sort out the discrepancies/differences beyond pointing
out the types of pays and openings available to the kid).

Lots of data there but too hard to organize it in a way that lets you
explore the various "surfaces" in N-space.

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about electronics john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-24 08:55 -0700
  Re: about electronics Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-25 02:14 +1000
    Re: about electronics john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-24 09:39 -0700
      Re: about electronics Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-25 03:32 +1000
        Re: about electronics john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-24 10:46 -0700
          Re: about electronics Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-25 14:44 +1000
            Re: about electronics john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-25 08:03 -0700
              Re: about electronics Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-26 02:28 +1000
                Re: about electronics john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-25 10:56 -0700
                Re: about electronics Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-26 21:27 +1000
              Re: about electronics Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-26 21:11 +1000
              Re: about electronics Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-26 21:16 +1000
              Re: about electronics Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-26 21:50 +1000
          Re: about electronics Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-04-25 17:52 +0000
            Re: about electronics john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-25 11:17 -0700
              Re: about electronics Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-04-26 17:12 +0000
        Re: about electronics someone <2a59d59e3809f827ce709d3815e3950eef4a6a93af5557a93a7fdfba71460843@example.com> - 2026-04-26 05:45 +0000
          Re: about electronics john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-26 03:29 -0700
          Re: about electronics Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-26 20:55 +1000
            Re: about electronics Someone <864c855e3d64399dc06fa30ebb75526c2c2e73db7216b16a3d4cf03e8a52ec3b@example.com> - 2026-04-28 20:15 +0000
              Re: about electronics Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-04-28 16:39 -0400
                Re: about electronics someone <2a59d59e3809f827ce709d3815e3950eef4a6a93af5557a93a7fdfba71460843@example.com> - 2026-04-30 05:30 +0000
                Re: about electronics Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-04-30 11:19 +0000
                Re: about electronics someone <2a59d59e3809f827ce709d3815e3950eef4a6a93af5557a93a7fdfba71460843@example.com> - 2026-05-05 18:15 +0000
                Re: about electronics Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-05-05 19:10 +0000
          Re: about electronics Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-04-26 12:53 +0000
          Re: about electronics john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-26 07:57 -0700
            Re: about electronics Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-27 01:33 +1000
      Re: about electronics Someone <864c855e3d64399dc06fa30ebb75526c2c2e73db7216b16a3d4cf03e8a52ec3b@example.com> - 2026-04-28 20:15 +0000
        Re: about electronics Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-29 14:36 +1000
  Re: about electronics Buzz McCool <buzz_mccool@yahoo.com> - 2026-04-24 10:10 -0700
    Re: about electronics john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-24 10:38 -0700
      Re: about electronics Buzz McCool <buzz_mccool@yahoo.com> - 2026-04-24 11:22 -0700
      Re: about electronics Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-25 15:07 +1000
        Re: about electronics john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-25 08:14 -0700
          Re: about electronics Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-26 02:20 +1000
            Re: about electronics john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-25 11:08 -0700
              Re: about electronics Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-26 21:34 +1000
                Re: about electronics john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-27 13:24 -0700
                Re: about electronics Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-28 17:44 +1000
                Re: about electronics john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-28 09:22 -0700
                Re: about electronics Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-29 03:24 +1000
                Re: about electronics john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-28 18:58 -0700
                Re: about electronics Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-29 14:27 +1000
  Re: about electronics bitrex <user@example.net> - 2026-04-24 23:20 -0400
    Re: about electronics Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-04-24 21:50 -0700
      Re: about electronics john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-25 08:26 -0700
      Re: about electronics Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-04-25 17:53 +0000
        Re: about electronics Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-04-25 11:34 -0700
          Re: about electronics Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-04-26 16:51 +0000
  Re: about electronics someone <2a59d59e3809f827ce709d3815e3950eef4a6a93af5557a93a7fdfba71460843@example.com> - 2026-04-26 05:45 +0000
    Re: about electronics john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-26 03:39 -0700
      Re: about electronics Buzz McCool <buzz_mccool@yahoo.com> - 2026-04-28 15:38 -0700
        Re: about electronics Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-04-28 15:57 -0700
          Re: about electronics john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-28 19:07 -0700
          Re: about electronics john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-29 10:39 -0700
            Re: about electronics Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-30 22:43 +1000
              Re: about electronics john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-30 07:19 -0700
                Re: about electronics Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-05-01 00:41 +1000
            Re: about electronics JM <sunaecoNoChoppedPork@gmail.com> - 2026-04-30 15:54 +0100
              Re: about electronics john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-30 09:27 -0700
                Re: about electronics Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-05-01 03:26 +1000
                Re: about electronics john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-30 11:38 -0700
                Re: about electronics JM <sunaecoNoChoppedPork@gmail.com> - 2026-04-30 18:45 +0100
                Re: about electronics Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-04-30 13:00 -0700
                Re: about electronics Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-05-01 21:24 +0000
                Re: about electronics Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-05-02 16:27 +1000
                Re: about electronics john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-30 11:40 -0700
          Re: about electronics Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-05-03 14:35 -0700
            Re: about electronics john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-05-03 14:41 -0700
            Re: about electronics joegwinn@comcast.net - 2026-05-03 19:54 -0400
              Re: about electronics Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-05-03 17:53 -0700
                Re: about electronics joegwinn@comcast.net - 2026-05-04 19:54 -0400
                Re: about electronics Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-05-04 17:33 -0700
                Re: about electronics joegwinn@comcast.net - 2026-05-05 13:35 -0400
                Re: about electronics Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-05-05 14:08 -0700
                Re: about electronics Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-05-05 21:29 +0000
                Re: about electronics Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2026-05-05 14:43 -0700
                Re: about electronics Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-05-06 15:58 +1000

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