Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet

From	Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com>
Newsgroups	comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject	Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet
Date	2016-03-30 16:08 +0000
Organization	Subsume Technologies, Inc.
Message-ID	<ndgtmk$4d8$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(14 earlier) <do_ray_me-4DC9E1.10455827032016@46.sub-75-242-165.myvzw.com> <nd91np$7gt$1@dont-email.me> <do_ray_me-A04982.09034428032016@46.sub-75-242-165.myvzw.com> <ndbl46$edu$1@dont-email.me> <do_ray_me-9C01F6.08355029032016@46.sub-75-242-165.myvzw.com>

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For your reference, records indicate that 
dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> wrote:

> I'm not the one thrown in a loop by this, it is just not what I was 
> particularly interested in. Perhaps slightly OT throws *you* in a loop?

Tangents are fine, but when you completely ignore the topic at hand it
begins to look more like ADD.

> I am not pretending anything of the sort. I am merely considering 
> favourably the idea that simple is *mostly* all that is needed in 
> present day ordinary English writing. 

And I’m merely suggesting that your “ordinary” is very particular to
your personal sensibilities.  For you it’s curly quotes.  Someone else
might think it makes sense to not use lowercase letters.  Or brackets.
And on and on.  If the purpose of language is to communicate, we all
must come together and agree on what really *is*, to quote Einstein,
“as simple as possible, but no simpler.”

> You are simply missing that shorter words that include a larger range 
> of possibles are harder to crack than other words with a restricted 
> range of possibles. Capitals help.

Not as much as you seem to imagine (please read that XKCD comic to the
point of understanding).  Uppercase is just one bit of difference, and
that’s assuming truly random usage.  So, for a 7-bit character set
like ASCII, it’s (roughly) the same difference as adding just one
extra letter for every 7.  Which is going to be easier to remember:

rOyGBIv

roygbivx

There’s a *reason* people commonly “change” their passwords by appending
numbers.  Chunking is a real thing for humans, and it simply does not
apply to the use of random capitalization in passwords.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chunking_(psychology)

> I have and do read a lot, and much old stuff. Much uses fancy. This is 
> not the point. I am just wondering if so much fancy is necessary. I 
> suspect not.

You’re absolutely right in thinking that most people *could* live their
lives by ignoring a lot of the world’s complexities, dealing in locals
rather than globals.  But the world stopped being that isolated a long
time ago.  I don’t *really* need to bother with times zones or UTC to
eat lunch.  I don’t *really* need to know my location on a global scale
to get to a party 5 miles away.

So, no, I suspect that *you* don’t need what curly quotes provide you
with.  So don’t use them.  Problem solved.  You probably won’t get one
complaint about it, either.  Everyone else who *does* use them would
appreciate you returning the favor, though.

> I am not proposing any big program. I am supposing that if you removed 
> most of the fancy, they would not be missed much by most people, 
> communication would be preserved fine.

Except when it isn’t, and then you have to figure out some sort of new
encoding that allows you to use an open/close semantic rather than a
toggle semantic.  Or, worse, you just do what programming languages
often do and “escape” the toggles, pushing the problem down a level
instead of actually solving it.

-- 
"Also . . . I can kill you with my brain."
River Tam, Trash, Firefly

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Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> - 2016-03-12 12:07 -0600
  Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Calum <com.gmail@nospam.scottishwildcat> - 2016-03-12 18:30 +0000
  Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-03-12 13:46 -0500
  Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> - 2016-03-12 14:38 -0500
    Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> - 2016-03-13 09:55 -0500
  Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-03-12 21:03 +0000
    Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> - 2016-03-13 13:16 -0500
    Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-03-20 23:28 -0500
  Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-03-12 21:58 +0000
    Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-03-13 12:52 +1100
      Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-03-13 12:55 +1100
        Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2016-03-13 01:25 -0800
          Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-03-13 10:31 +0100
          Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-03-13 21:19 +1100
            Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Michael Kallweitt <michael.kallweitt@posteo.de> - 2016-03-13 11:11 +0000
      Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Michael Kallweitt <michael.kallweitt@posteo.de> - 2016-03-13 07:02 +0000
        Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-03-13 19:01 +0000
          Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Michael Kallweitt <michael.kallweitt@posteo.de> - 2016-03-13 19:39 +0000
            Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-03-14 01:13 +0000
              Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Michael Kallweitt <michael.kallweitt@posteo.de> - 2016-03-14 21:03 +0000
            Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-03-14 16:27 +0000
  Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-03-20 23:25 -0500
  Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-03-21 11:34 -0700
    Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-03-21 19:37 +0000
      Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-03-21 15:30 -0700
        Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-03-22 07:07 +0100
          Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-03-22 09:41 -0700
            Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-03-22 17:13 +0000
              Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-03-22 14:52 -0700
              Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-03-25 04:50 +0100
            Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-03-23 14:01 -0500
            Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-03-24 07:40 +0100
              Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-03-24 07:10 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-03-24 08:40 +0100
          Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-03-22 17:23 +0000
            Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-03-23 14:03 -0500
            Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-03-24 07:45 +0100
              Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Michael Kallweitt <michael.kallweitt@posteo.de> - 2016-03-24 07:00 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-03-24 08:40 +0100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Michael Kallweitt <michael.kallweitt@posteo.de> - 2016-03-24 08:29 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-03-24 11:46 +0100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet MalcolmO <user@domain.invalid> - 2016-04-11 01:35 -0400
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-03-25 09:11 +1100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-03-25 05:22 +0100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-03-26 19:30 +1100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Michael Kallweitt <michael.kallweitt@posteo.de> - 2016-03-25 07:58 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-03-26 19:39 +1100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-03-26 19:48 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-03-27 10:45 +1100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-03-27 16:28 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-03-28 09:03 +1100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-03-28 16:11 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-03-28 19:11 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-03-29 08:16 +1100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-03-30 11:47 -0500
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-03-30 11:50 -0500
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-03-29 08:35 +1100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-03-30 16:08 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-03-30 11:56 -0500
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-03-31 08:25 +1100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-03-30 17:25 -0500
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-03-30 17:42 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-03-31 08:20 +1100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-03-31 19:59 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-04-01 08:43 +1100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-03-30 11:53 -0500
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-03-30 17:45 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-03-31 08:24 +1100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet MalcolmO <user@domain.invalid> - 2016-04-11 02:08 -0400
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-11 15:49 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-04-12 09:47 +1000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-04-12 04:45 +0200
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-04-12 00:33 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-04-12 00:32 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Michael Kallweitt <michael.kallweitt@posteo.de> - 2016-03-27 20:53 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet MalcolmO <user@domain.invalid> - 2016-04-11 02:02 -0400
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-04-11 19:59 +1000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-04-11 12:54 +0200
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2016-04-11 19:48 -0700
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-04-13 19:52 +1000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet MalcolmO <user@domain.invalid> - 2016-04-26 12:33 -0400
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-04-27 07:24 +1000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-11 16:22 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-04-11 19:09 +0200
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-12 15:26 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-04-12 18:27 +0200
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet befr@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Fröhlich) - 2016-04-13 08:54 +0200
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-04-13 11:34 +0200
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-04-24 23:28 +0200
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-13 15:21 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-04-13 17:57 +0200
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet MalcolmO <user@domain.invalid> - 2016-04-26 12:44 -0400
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-04-24 23:27 +0200
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet MalcolmO <user@domain.invalid> - 2016-04-26 12:53 -0400
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-04-26 23:28 +0200
                Childraising (was: Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet) befr@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Fröhlich) - 2016-04-25 10:14 +0200
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet MalcolmO <user@domain.invalid> - 2016-04-26 12:41 -0400
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-04-26 23:32 +0200
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet MalcolmO <user@domain.invalid> - 2016-04-26 12:36 -0400
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet MalcolmO <user@domain.invalid> - 2016-04-11 01:46 -0400
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-03-25 05:00 +0100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-03-25 15:25 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-03-26 10:53 -0500
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2016-03-25 12:52 -0600
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet ANTant@zimage.com (Ant) - 2016-03-25 21:52 -0500
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-03-27 07:24 +0200
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet MalcolmO <user@domain.invalid> - 2016-04-11 01:31 -0400
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-03-24 15:32 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-03-26 10:54 -0500
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-03-25 22:18 -0500
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet MalcolmO <user@domain.invalid> - 2016-04-11 01:27 -0400
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-04-11 11:02 +0200
            Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-03-25 04:57 +0100
            Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet MalcolmO <user@domain.invalid> - 2016-04-11 01:24 -0400

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