Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet

From	Doc O'Leary <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com>
Newsgroups	comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject	Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet
Date	2016-03-28 16:11 +0000
Organization	Subsume Technologies, Inc.
Message-ID	<ndbl46$edu$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(12 earlier) <do_ray_me-1AA835.19393226032016@46.sub-75-242-165.myvzw.com> <nd6p1j$bj3$1@dont-email.me> <do_ray_me-4DC9E1.10455827032016@46.sub-75-242-165.myvzw.com> <nd91np$7gt$1@dont-email.me> <do_ray_me-A04982.09034428032016@46.sub-75-242-165.myvzw.com>

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For your reference, records indicate that 
dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> wrote:

> No one is hand-waving here. Stop exaggerating. I am asking a question 
> about normal English writing and you are repeatedly giving examples 
> from coding, you are even showing annoyance that I am interested in 
> the question regarding the English language. 

What?  The subject of the thread is Usenet usage, so the tech angle
shouldn’t throw you for a loop.  And, news flash, E. E. Cummings was
not a coder!  While it is indeed very convenient to hand-wave away all
the other languages in existence and pretend that modern English is
the only thing that matters here, I would suggest instead to be more
inclusive if you’re interested in the truly wide variety of ways
humans communicate, including how even a single language like “normal
English writing” has changed over time.

> If we had to have longer passwords then that 
> would be a burden in itself,

Clearly you didn’t read the XKCD comic.  Because of our innate language
abilities, longer passwords (using actual words) are *less* of a burden
than changing case (or using other substitutions) in non-standard ways.

> I don't see 
> the same for fancy dancy quotation marks in normal English writing. 

Then you must not read many things that aren’t entirely presented using
computers that are limited by 1980s technology.  I can’t go to my
bookshelf and pull off anything that *doesn’t* use curly quotes.  That
includes the programming books.  For example, my copy of “The C
Programming Language” uses them as early as the second paragraph of the
preface!

> Maybe it is you who should be feeling silly for exaggerating the scope 
> of my query.

I’m not exaggerating anything, just pointing out the bits that don’t
make sense.  It doesn’t make sense to say you want simplicity, yet you
give no real guidelines to accomplish it (beyond rallying behind the
ASCII character set).  If you think I’m being outlandish when I
reference historical usage or, heaven forbid, non-English languages . . .
well, set out some rules that make more sense.

There is nothing about UTF-8 in general or curly quotes in particular
that should get anybody’s undies in a bunch.  If you don’t like them,
don’t use them.  If your Usenet client (or other text processing
software) is 10 years out of date, get it fixed.  I guarantee that
actions along those lines will yield better results than demanding that
everyone use straight quotes all the time everywhere.

-- 
"Also . . . I can kill you with my brain."
River Tam, Trash, Firefly

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Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> - 2016-03-12 12:07 -0600
  Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Calum <com.gmail@nospam.scottishwildcat> - 2016-03-12 18:30 +0000
  Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-03-12 13:46 -0500
  Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com> - 2016-03-12 14:38 -0500
    Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> - 2016-03-13 09:55 -0500
  Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-03-12 21:03 +0000
    Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> - 2016-03-13 13:16 -0500
    Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-03-20 23:28 -0500
  Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-03-12 21:58 +0000
    Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-03-13 12:52 +1100
      Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-03-13 12:55 +1100
        Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2016-03-13 01:25 -0800
          Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-03-13 10:31 +0100
          Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-03-13 21:19 +1100
            Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Michael Kallweitt <michael.kallweitt@posteo.de> - 2016-03-13 11:11 +0000
      Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Michael Kallweitt <michael.kallweitt@posteo.de> - 2016-03-13 07:02 +0000
        Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-03-13 19:01 +0000
          Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Michael Kallweitt <michael.kallweitt@posteo.de> - 2016-03-13 19:39 +0000
            Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-03-14 01:13 +0000
              Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Michael Kallweitt <michael.kallweitt@posteo.de> - 2016-03-14 21:03 +0000
            Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-03-14 16:27 +0000
  Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-03-20 23:25 -0500
  Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-03-21 11:34 -0700
    Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-03-21 19:37 +0000
      Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-03-21 15:30 -0700
        Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-03-22 07:07 +0100
          Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-03-22 09:41 -0700
            Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-03-22 17:13 +0000
              Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-03-22 14:52 -0700
              Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-03-25 04:50 +0100
            Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-03-23 14:01 -0500
            Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-03-24 07:40 +0100
              Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-03-24 07:10 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-03-24 08:40 +0100
          Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-03-22 17:23 +0000
            Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-03-23 14:03 -0500
            Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-03-24 07:45 +0100
              Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Michael Kallweitt <michael.kallweitt@posteo.de> - 2016-03-24 07:00 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-03-24 08:40 +0100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Michael Kallweitt <michael.kallweitt@posteo.de> - 2016-03-24 08:29 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-03-24 11:46 +0100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet MalcolmO <user@domain.invalid> - 2016-04-11 01:35 -0400
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-03-25 09:11 +1100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-03-25 05:22 +0100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-03-26 19:30 +1100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Michael Kallweitt <michael.kallweitt@posteo.de> - 2016-03-25 07:58 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-03-26 19:39 +1100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-03-26 19:48 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-03-27 10:45 +1100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-03-27 16:28 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-03-28 09:03 +1100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-03-28 16:11 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-03-28 19:11 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-03-29 08:16 +1100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-03-30 11:47 -0500
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-03-30 11:50 -0500
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-03-29 08:35 +1100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-03-30 16:08 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-03-30 11:56 -0500
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-03-31 08:25 +1100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-03-30 17:25 -0500
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-03-30 17:42 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-03-31 08:20 +1100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-03-31 19:59 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-04-01 08:43 +1100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-03-30 11:53 -0500
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-03-30 17:45 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-03-31 08:24 +1100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet MalcolmO <user@domain.invalid> - 2016-04-11 02:08 -0400
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-11 15:49 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-04-12 09:47 +1000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-04-12 04:45 +0200
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-04-12 00:33 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-04-12 00:32 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Michael Kallweitt <michael.kallweitt@posteo.de> - 2016-03-27 20:53 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet MalcolmO <user@domain.invalid> - 2016-04-11 02:02 -0400
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-04-11 19:59 +1000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-04-11 12:54 +0200
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2016-04-11 19:48 -0700
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2016-04-13 19:52 +1000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet MalcolmO <user@domain.invalid> - 2016-04-26 12:33 -0400
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-11 16:22 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-04-11 19:09 +0200
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-12 15:26 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-04-12 18:27 +0200
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet befr@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Fröhlich) - 2016-04-13 08:54 +0200
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-04-13 11:34 +0200
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-04-24 23:28 +0200
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-04-13 15:21 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-04-13 17:57 +0200
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-04-24 23:27 +0200
                Childraising (was: Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet) befr@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Fröhlich) - 2016-04-25 10:14 +0200
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet MalcolmO <user@domain.invalid> - 2016-04-11 01:46 -0400
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-03-25 05:00 +0100
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-03-25 15:25 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-03-26 10:53 -0500
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2016-03-25 12:52 -0600
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet ANTant@zimage.com (Ant) - 2016-03-25 21:52 -0500
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-03-27 07:24 +0200
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet MalcolmO <user@domain.invalid> - 2016-04-11 01:31 -0400
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-03-24 15:32 +0000
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-03-26 10:54 -0500
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-03-25 22:18 -0500
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet MalcolmO <user@domain.invalid> - 2016-04-11 01:27 -0400
                Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet android <here@there.was> - 2016-04-11 11:02 +0200
            Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-03-25 04:57 +0100
            Re: Getting rid of smart quotes/apostrophes on Usenet MalcolmO <user@domain.invalid> - 2016-04-11 01:24 -0400

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