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Re: NSA cryptanalyst: "We, too, are Americans"

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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On Tue, 17 Sep 2013 17:10:48 +1000, David Eather <eather@tpg.com.au> wrote:

> On Tue, 17 Sep 2013 12:43:56 +1000, Andrew Swallow  
> <am.swallow@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> On 16/09/2013 16:21, Ramon F Herrera wrote:
>>>
>>> NSA cryptanalyst: We, too, are Americans
>>>
>>> Summary: ZDNet Exclusive: An NSA mathematician shares his
>>> from-the-trenches view of the agency's surveillance activities.
>>>
>>
>> The NSA is basically innocent of internal surveillance.  It was set up  
>> to spy on governments and that is what it does.  The absence of lists  
>> of names of people spies on demonstrates that.
>>
>
> and I think I saw the tooth fairy...
>
>
>
>> What we are seeing however is people whose faulty conscience is going  
>> "Need Cover-up", "NEED COVER-UP", *"NOW"*.   The FBI needs to see why.
>>
>> Andrew Swallow

It does deserve a better reply.

A democracy is government of the people, by the people and for the people.  
The congress is the most powerful manifestation of that ideal and a  
congregational inquiry is strongest and most earnest attempt of the people  
to get facts. In the face of this the head of the NSA, a government agency  
which like all government agencies is supposed to support the dreams and  
aspirations of the people, lied *repeatedly* to a congressional inquiry  
and in so doing showed utter contempt for the basis that the USA was  
founded on.

Further reports by the NSA's own internal auditor found that it repeatedly  
breach it judicial limits to the tune of three times a day. Clearly the  
NSA will not even respect the very generous judicial guidelines it is  
supposed to work within.

Despite the massive  cost in life the 9/11 attacks posed no lasting threat  
to the US. People rallied together as proud Americans with a shared  
experience. New Yorkers spoke to and helped each other even if they were  
strangers. The American identity was made stronger, not weaker.

The attack by the NSA is much different. It is pervasive, and it attacks  
the free speech that underpins democracy's in all its forms. In the Soviet  
Union the citizens responded to the oppressive surveillance state by  
withdrawing from public life and public contribution and instead they  
focused very narrowly on themselves and their own family. Truth was spoken  
only between husband and wife at night, and even then with the bed sheets  
pulled over their faces.  The West used to laugh at the Soviet Union  
because their spy agencies monitored every international call, every  
foreigner in the country and its own citizens who had contact with them.  
And now the NSA is even more pervasive than that and its efforts to  
coerce, subvert and influence are not a benign as people seem to think.  
How do you make someone do what they think is morally wrong? You bully  
them and threaten their loved ones, which is something made much easier by  
mass surveillance.  CRYPTO-GRAM, September 15, 2013 details at least 2  
draw dropping examples.

It has to stop.

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Thread

NSA cryptanalyst: "We, too, are Americans" Ramon F Herrera <ramon@conexus.net> - 2013-09-16 10:21 -0500
  Re: NSA cryptanalyst: "We, too, are Americans" "David Eather" <eather@tpg.com.au> - 2013-09-17 10:01 +1000
  Re: NSA cryptanalyst: "We, too, are Americans" Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2013-09-17 03:43 +0100
    Re: NSA cryptanalyst: "We, too, are Americans" "David Eather" <eather@tpg.com.au> - 2013-09-17 17:10 +1000
      Re: NSA cryptanalyst: "We, too, are Americans" "David Eather" <eather@tpg.com.au> - 2013-09-17 19:46 +1000
        Re: NSA cryptanalyst: "We, too, are Americans" Ramon F Herrera <ramon@conexus.net> - 2013-09-17 14:36 -0500
  Re: NSA cryptanalyst: "We, too, are Americans" unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-09-17 02:46 +0000
    Re: NSA cryptanalyst: "We, too, are Americans" Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2013-09-17 04:07 +0100
      Re: NSA cryptanalyst: "We, too, are Americans" Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nieveler.nospam@arcor.de> - 2013-09-20 06:56 +0000
        Re: NSA cryptanalyst: "We, too, are Americans" Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2013-09-20 09:41 +0100
          Re: NSA cryptanalyst: "We, too, are Americans" Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nieveler.nospam@arcor.de> - 2013-09-20 09:53 +0000
            Re: NSA cryptanalyst: "We, too, are Americans" Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2013-09-20 14:10 +0100
  Re: NSA cryptanalyst: "We, too, are Americans" Ramon F Herrera <ramon@conexus.net> - 2013-09-17 14:26 -0500
    Re: NSA cryptanalyst: "We, too, are Americans" Harry <hepgugl56@gmail.com> - 2013-11-06 16:36 -0500
      Re: NSA cryptanalyst: "We, too, are Americans" Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2013-11-06 23:23 +0000
        Re: NSA cryptanalyst: "We, too, are Americans" Casper H.S. Dik <Casper.Dik@OrSPaMcle.COM> - 2013-11-06 23:50 +0000
          Re: NSA cryptanalyst: "We, too, are Americans" Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2013-11-10 19:53 +0000
            Re: NSA cryptanalyst: "We, too, are Americans" Doc O'Leary <droleary@6usenet2013.subsume.com> - 2013-11-11 10:31 -0600
              Re: NSA cryptanalyst: "We, too, are Americans" Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2013-11-11 18:09 +0000
                Re: NSA cryptanalyst: "We, too, are Americans" Doc O'Leary <droleary@6usenet2013.subsume.com> - 2013-11-12 11:26 -0600
      Re: NSA cryptanalyst: "We, too, are Americans" unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-11-07 00:58 +0000
        Re: NSA cryptanalyst: "We, too, are Americans" "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2013-11-06 20:49 -0500
          Re: NSA cryptanalyst: "We, too, are Americans" unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-11-07 04:50 +0000
        Re: NSA cryptanalyst: "We, too, are Americans" Harry <hepgugl56@gmail.com> - 2013-11-07 19:54 -0500
        Re: NSA cryptanalyst: "We, too, are Americans" Dave Hazelwood <fednatic@gmail.com> - 2013-11-16 21:22 +0800
  Re: NSA cryptanalyst: "We, too, are Americans" Tim downing <timotheus.d@gmail.com> - 2013-11-18 09:11 -0800

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