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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #61095 > unrolled thread

Joy of this, Joy of that

Started byroot <NoEMail@home.org>
First post2024-11-19 17:09 +0000
Last post2024-11-20 18:53 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 842 — 23 participants

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Contents

  Joy of this, Joy of that root <NoEMail@home.org> - 2024-11-19 17:09 +0000
    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-20 00:18 +0000
      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that root <NoEMail@home.org> - 2024-11-20 02:33 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-20 02:52 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-20 04:46 +0000
    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-20 03:37 -0500
      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-20 15:46 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-20 16:03 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-21 02:20 -0500
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-21 08:14 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Bozo User <anthk@disroot.org> - 2025-01-14 12:03 +0000
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-21 13:41 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Don_from_AZ <djatechNOSPAM@comcast.net.invalid> - 2024-11-21 20:19 -0700
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-22 05:51 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-22 23:57 -0500
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 05:31 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-23 20:23 -0500
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-24 02:06 +0000
                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-24 00:16 -0500
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-24 05:14 +0000
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-23 11:16 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-23 19:39 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2024-11-23 13:46 -0700
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-24 14:33 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 21:57 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-23 20:17 -0500
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-24 05:26 +0000
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-24 14:37 +0000
                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-24 14:39 +0000
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-24 17:00 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-24 22:07 +0100
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 02:12 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-25 10:55 +0100
                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-25 12:04 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-25 22:20 +0100
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 23:55 +0000
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-26 10:10 +0100
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-26 10:24 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-26 13:17 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-11-26 09:15 -0500
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-27 09:34 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-26 18:57 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-26 21:58 +0100
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-27 01:38 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-27 01:40 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-27 10:10 +0100
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-27 11:58 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-27 19:12 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-28 09:18 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-25 21:49 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-27 01:39 -0500
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-27 22:13 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-27 22:46 -0500
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-28 05:46 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-28 02:56 -0500
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-28 08:52 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 04:48 -0500
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-29 19:32 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-28 21:36 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 05:06 -0500
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-29 18:06 +0000
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-30 00:16 -0500
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-30 06:23 +0000
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 06:53 +0000
                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 09:30 +0000
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-30 23:14 +0000
                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-01 04:19 -0500
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 11:21 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-01 16:27 +0000
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-02 23:28 -0500
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 18:41 +0100
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-02 00:37 -0500
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-01 20:47 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-02 23:57 -0500
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 21:27 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-02 23:58 -0500
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 10:51 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:30 +0000
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:26 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-05 01:03 -0500
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 10:25 +0100
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 01:13 -0500
                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 07:43 +0000
                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 10:12 +0100
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 02:30 +0000
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 22:59 -0500
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:32 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-07 16:15 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 18:39 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:35 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:57 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:43 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:12 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-08 03:02 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 08:09 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-08 16:33 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-08 18:19 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-08 19:50 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 11:49 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-08 19:50 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 21:50 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 12:09 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2024-12-08 04:45 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 12:53 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-08 03:05 -0500
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:26 +0100
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:49 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-07 10:15 -0500
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 16:40 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-07 12:44 -0500
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:47 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:30 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 18:24 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:37 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:57 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 20:16 +0000
                                                                                          Re: The Joy Of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:37 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 00:03 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:19 +0100
                                                                                      Re: The Joy Of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:36 +0000
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 22:41 -0500
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:29 +0100
                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 22:40 -0500
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 04:50 +0000
                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 10:06 +0100
                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 23:27 -0500
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:40 +0100
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-08 02:05 -0500
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 13:39 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-08 19:50 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-09 01:22 -0500
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-09 15:28 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 15:58 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-09 21:53 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:29 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 20:09 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 22:23 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 10:09 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:39 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 22:15 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-10 04:41 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:50 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 10:07 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-10 19:52 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 22:06 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-12 03:38 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 10:49 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-13 04:56 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-13 02:20 -0500
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 08:38 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:42 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:41 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-13 11:32 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 20:01 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:48 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:40 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 13:15 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:09 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-14 18:17 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:34 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-14 05:18 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 13:08 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 13:51 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:15 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-09 11:39 -0800
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 20:22 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 09:52 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-12 03:07 -0500
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 08:22 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-12 08:13 -0800
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-13 01:55 -0500
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 08:30 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-13 07:53 -0800
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:45 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:38 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 20:14 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:53 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 11:13 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-14 18:28 +0000
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-05 20:49 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 23:33 -0500
                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-07 07:54 +0000
                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-08 02:44 -0500
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-29 21:42 +0000
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-30 00:19 -0500
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-30 06:22 +0000
                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-01 03:39 -0500
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-01 09:03 +0000
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 11:08 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-01 20:46 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-12-02 07:13 +1000
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-01 23:26 +0000
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-02 01:06 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-28 05:52 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-28 02:47 -0500
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-11-25 19:39 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-11-26 07:09 -0500
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-26 19:31 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 09:02 -0800
                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-02 18:55 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-12-02 23:25 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-03 00:59 +0000
                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-02 23:23 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-03 00:53 -0500
                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-24 22:06 +0100
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-25 08:03 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-25 10:58 +0100
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-21 17:25 +0000
      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-11-20 08:10 -0800
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-20 16:31 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-20 17:54 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-20 19:02 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-20 21:05 +0000
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-11-20 23:30 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-20 23:58 +0000
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-11-21 01:50 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-21 02:48 +0000
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-11-22 20:30 +0000
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-21 08:09 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-21 10:45 -0500
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-21 23:04 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-21 20:31 -0500
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-22 03:54 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-22 01:25 -0500
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-22 18:53 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-22 21:04 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-22 10:35 +0000
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-22 13:37 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-22 19:30 +0000
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-22 21:03 +0000
                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-23 07:09 +0000
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-22 23:07 +0000
                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 00:44 +0000
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-23 01:08 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 01:41 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-23 08:26 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-23 11:25 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 21:36 +0000
                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-23 23:48 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-24 00:31 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-24 21:19 +0000
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-24 22:36 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-24 05:01 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-24 21:29 +0000
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-24 22:37 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-25 11:48 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-25 21:47 +0000
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 01:43 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-25 10:53 +0100
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 19:42 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-25 23:21 +0100
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 23:37 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-26 10:09 +0100
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-26 19:17 +0000
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-26 21:59 +0100
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 15:21 -0800
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-02 23:28 +0000
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 03:46 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-24 19:35 -0500
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-25 00:36 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 01:41 -0500
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-25 06:47 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 21:50 -0500
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-26 03:00 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-25 10:56 +0100
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 21:58 -0500
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-26 04:03 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-26 10:12 +0100
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-27 01:58 -0500
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-27 10:12 +0100
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-27 19:06 +0000
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-27 21:26 +0100
                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-28 19:59 +0000
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-28 21:53 +0100
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-27 23:12 -0500
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-28 05:54 +0000
                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-28 02:22 -0500
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-28 08:38 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 03:18 -0500
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 13:18 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-30 01:18 +0000
                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-28 11:04 +0100
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-28 18:22 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-28 21:52 +0100
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 04:24 -0500
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 13:22 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 23:42 -0500
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 06:25 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 09:28 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 12:02 +0100
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-29 18:39 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 23:44 -0500
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 03:21 -0500
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-29 10:29 +0100
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 13:24 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-29 18:23 +0000
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 21:01 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-29 22:51 +0100
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 00:17 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 11:52 +0100
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-29 22:43 +0000
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 09:24 +0000
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-29 18:53 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-29 22:52 +0100
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 00:21 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 11:53 +0100
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 23:31 -0500
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 07:00 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 12:05 +0100
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 13:19 +0000
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-29 18:57 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 21:04 +0000
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-29 22:54 +0100
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 00:07 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-29 22:53 +0100
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 00:12 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 09:18 +0000
                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 12:06 +0100
                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 18:47 +0000
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 21:56 +0100
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 01:15 +0000
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 11:18 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 18:47 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 22:11 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 13:19 -0800
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 02:21 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 10:04 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:09 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 21:24 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 01:37 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 11:09 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 18:55 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:59 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-05 00:35 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 10:22 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-05 21:19 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 09:56 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:46 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:24 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:25 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:51 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 02:30 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:27 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:54 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 18:27 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:39 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:20 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:40 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 11:54 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 18:40 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:23 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 02:44 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 12:06 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 21:23 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 10:29 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 22:06 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 10:02 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-10 19:41 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 22:03 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-12-08 09:29 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:50 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-07 10:18 -0500
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 16:41 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-07 12:48 -0500
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:34 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:56 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:39 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-08 04:52 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-05 07:55 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 11:07 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 15:06 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 14:27 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 21:37 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 10:34 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 21:16 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 20:50 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:24 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:18 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 14:08 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 14:29 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:49 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 00:42 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:35 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:10 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 14:07 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 14:25 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:47 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:10 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 14:05 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 17:44 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:52 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-05 01:18 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 10:24 +0100
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 10:44 +0000
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 10:42 +0000
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 18:38 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 20:57 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 22:15 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-02 02:17 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 11:16 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-12-02 07:23 +1000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 10:25 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 11:17 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 11:01 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 15:04 +0100
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 20:40 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 11:14 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 15:06 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 14:28 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 21:38 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 03:54 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 10:39 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:00 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 21:18 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 20:53 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 00:32 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:07 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:25 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:20 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-04 17:57 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 00:30 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:35 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 19:13 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 22:01 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 11:58 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-02 18:49 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 21:40 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 02:59 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 10:08 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 10:45 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 18:53 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 21:21 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 20:55 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 00:24 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:33 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-04 17:57 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:27 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:21 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 14:09 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 14:29 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:50 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-05 07:57 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 17:50 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:53 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 00:20 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:32 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 21:19 +0100
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 11:52 +0100
                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 18:44 +0000
                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 21:54 +0100
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 01:09 +0000
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-01 03:50 -0500
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 10:54 +0000
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 11:15 +0100
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 10:46 +0000
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 19:29 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 11:09 +0000
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 10:36 +0000
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 18:32 +0100
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-01 18:49 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 22:11 +0100
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 19:13 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 22:14 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-02 01:50 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 10:26 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 10:27 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 15:03 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 14:26 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 21:36 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2024-12-04 04:03 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 11:10 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:13 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 14:07 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 14:27 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:47 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 19:02 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 22:00 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-05 01:51 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 10:31 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-05 09:36 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 13:17 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 01:51 -0500
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 10:11 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:41 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:23 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 19:54 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 21:40 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:23 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:50 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:10 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 22:57 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-07 01:04 -0500
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:23 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-07 00:55 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 08:17 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:52 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 14:12 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:50 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 14:20 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 18:33 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:46 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:29 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 01:48 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 07:46 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 10:09 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:31 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:18 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:22 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:50 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 18:45 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:10 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:57 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 20:16 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 02:56 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:25 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 20:51 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:20 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:43 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:57 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:31 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:07 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:37 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 11:52 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 01:39 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 11:59 +0100
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 21:45 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 10:33 +0100
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:13 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:41 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-09 21:57 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 09:59 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:54 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:32 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 22:12 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 10:05 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:56 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:35 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 21:11 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:09 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 02:06 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 12:04 +0100
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 21:13 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 10:26 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 11:56 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:51 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 09:58 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:54 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 21:14 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-10 19:50 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 22:04 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 23:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-11 10:57 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:21 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 19:20 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:37 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 19:16 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:37 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:36 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 03:36 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 12:10 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 22:31 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 10:43 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 23:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 10:20 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-10 19:31 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 22:03 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-11 01:44 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-11 11:03 +0100
                                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 01:11 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 10:21 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 20:08 +0000
                                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 21:31 +0100
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 01:29 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:13 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 20:28 +0000
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:57 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 13:03 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:40 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 19:57 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 12:11 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-15 12:37 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 19:28 +0100
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-13 10:42 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 20:18 +0000
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:54 +0100
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 11:18 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:02 +0100
                                                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 18:37 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 23:01 +0100
                                                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-14 18:43 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 19:59 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-15 00:33 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 11:25 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 23:05 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-15 01:04 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 11:27 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 11:17 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:28 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 13:14 +0000
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:07 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of Translation Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-12-11 12:33 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of Translation Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2024-12-11 15:16 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 01:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of Translation Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-12 05:06 +0000
                                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 08:24 +0000
                                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of Translation D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 10:37 +0100
                                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 20:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of Translation D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 21:33 +0100
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 01:47 +0000
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of Translation D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:20 +0100
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 20:50 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of Translation D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 12:00 +0100
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:42 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-10 19:58 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 21:12 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-10 22:49 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:37 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:12 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 11:18 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:21 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:49 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 19:14 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:35 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:18 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:12 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-07 02:41 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:52 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:00 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:45 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 18:32 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:09 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-08 00:28 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 12:24 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:42 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 17:07 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 22:57 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:30 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 11:51 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 11:59 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:39 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 16:54 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 22:48 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:26 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 11:48 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-08 12:15 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 21:50 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 11:55 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:39 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:26 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 22:38 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 10:43 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:40 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:44 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:48 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 09:56 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-08 00:31 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 08:13 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-08 12:14 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-08 19:50 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-08 12:11 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 21:49 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 11:54 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:38 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 00:19 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:48 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-09 03:02 -0500
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:41 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:47 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:42 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:36 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 02:30 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-07 00:32 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:55 +0000
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 10:20 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 15:02 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-03 00:30 -0500
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 10:13 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 10:54 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:14 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 21:25 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 01:15 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:37 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 18:48 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:56 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-04 00:44 -0500
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 11:12 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-04 07:58 -0800
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:52 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-05 01:37 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-05 07:16 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2024-12-06 04:02 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 05:39 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 10:29 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-05 01:28 -0500
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-05 07:34 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 01:31 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:09 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 20:33 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-07 00:19 -0500
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 05:37 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:30 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 19:07 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 23:43 -0500
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 05:29 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:43 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 14:07 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 18:30 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:43 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:25 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 14:02 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 18:15 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:55 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-05 01:42 -0500
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-05 07:27 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 01:40 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 08:00 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 10:30 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-05 07:50 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org> - 2024-12-06 03:29 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 05:25 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 10:00 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:04 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:09 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 19:49 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 21:39 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 21:15 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:24 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 09:58 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:47 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:24 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2024-12-06 17:29 +0000
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 19:02 +0000
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-03 00:20 -0500
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-29 22:50 +0100
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 23:50 -0500
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 06:39 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 09:29 +0000
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 11:57 +0100
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-01 04:11 -0500
                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 11:21 +0100
                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 18:54 +0000
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-03 00:10 -0500
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:32 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-01 03:54 -0500
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 11:19 +0100
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 12:35 -0800
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-28 11:03 +0100
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 02:41 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 02:11 -0500
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-24 10:25 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-24 21:23 +0000
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 01:46 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 02:41 -0500
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-25 09:07 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 22:59 -0500
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-26 04:43 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-26 05:57 +0000
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-26 08:49 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-26 05:29 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 15:43 -0800
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 10:47 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:23 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 02:33 -0500
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 19:54 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 23:58 -0500
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-23 02:29 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-23 08:52 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-23 11:30 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-23 19:28 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-22 21:02 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-21 19:48 +0000
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-21 23:14 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-21 23:50 +0000
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-22 01:51 -0500
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-22 10:34 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-22 10:45 +0000
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-22 12:30 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-22 18:53 +0000
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-11-22 20:40 +0000
                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-23 07:09 +0000
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 07:44 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-23 09:05 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-23 11:31 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-23 19:16 +0000
                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 21:48 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-23 19:47 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-23 10:16 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-23 11:34 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-23 19:16 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 21:45 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-24 12:46 +0000
                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-24 20:20 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-25 08:57 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-25 21:48 +0000
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-26 08:32 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-26 21:22 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-26 21:30 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-26 21:36 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2024-11-26 17:55 -0700
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-27 01:48 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-27 12:05 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-27 16:33 +0000
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-27 17:20 +0000
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-27 18:58 +0000
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-28 08:35 +0000
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-28 09:16 +0000
                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-28 14:19 +0000
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-28 18:19 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 10:11 +0000
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-27 22:11 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-27 18:32 +0000
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-28 09:16 +0000
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 10:01 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-27 18:51 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-27 04:39 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2024-11-26 22:38 -0700
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-27 09:27 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-27 22:06 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-27 23:59 +0000
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-28 00:57 +0000
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-23 11:20 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 21:38 +0000
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-22 20:58 +0000
                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-23 07:09 +0000
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 07:45 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-23 19:16 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 21:40 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-11-25 04:40 +0000
                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-25 06:50 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-11-25 18:20 +0000
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-23 09:10 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-23 19:16 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-23 20:50 +0000
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-23 01:28 -0500
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-22 20:55 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-20 21:47 +0000
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-11-20 14:09 -0800
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-20 23:39 +0000
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-11-21 01:27 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-21 02:16 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-21 04:31 +0000
      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-20 18:53 +0000

Page 26 of 43 — ← Prev page 1 … 24 25 [26] 27 28 … 43  Next page →


#61873

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2024-12-07 18:46 +0000
Message-ID<vj255g$381or$6@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61858
On 07/12/2024 17:33, D wrote:
> The richer we become, the less of a grip socialism has on the lower 
> classes.
> 
> That is why they are scrambling for new fronts such as the environment 
> and immigration (import a new lower class and start again from the 1800:s).

A novel perspective.

Socialism relies on fresh victims to champion (but never actually fix), 
their victimhood., If they cease to be victims, why would they support 
Socialism?


-- 
“it should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism 
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans, 
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and 
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a 
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,' 
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for 
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet 
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that 
you live neither in Joseph Stalin’s Communist era, nor in the Orwellian 
utopia of 1984.”

Vaclav Klaus

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#61906

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-12-07 23:29 +0100
Message-ID<bf9acacc-6427-7a7f-535b-a2a1ecaff23f@example.net>
In reply to#61873

On Sat, 7 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 07/12/2024 17:33, D wrote:
>> The richer we become, the less of a grip socialism has on the lower 
>> classes.
>> 
>> That is why they are scrambling for new fronts such as the environment and 
>> immigration (import a new lower class and start again from the 1800:s).
>
> A novel perspective.
>
> Socialism relies on fresh victims to champion (but never actually fix), their 
> victimhood., If they cease to be victims, why would they support Socialism?

Exactly. That is why I believe that socialism morphed into the modern woke 
movement.

They don't wear the label, but in essence, it is the logical continuation. 
The working classes deserted them when they became wealthy enough, so then 
along came the women (all men are evil), and then came the immigrants (all 
white men are evil) and then came the homos and on and on.

The disadvantage for them is... that eventually the groups will starts to 
prey on each other, and infighting starts, and then the house of cards 
collapses. We've seen that in europe, where socialism has forgotten the 
"common man" in favour of homos, immigrants, women, eco-facists etc. and 
now it's blown up in their faces.

As always... the extreme left and extreme right, always the populists, 
swoop in from the sidelines and wins.

There is, however, another logical progression of the woke ideology that 
is less likely to happen. The groups keep dividing, and subdividing, until 
it reaches its logical end station were division is no longer feasible...

...individualism. ;)

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#61759

From"186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net>
Date2024-12-06 01:48 -0500
Message-ID<9cGcnY0c8c3LA8_6nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to#61737
On 12/5/24 4:36 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 05/12/2024 09:31, D wrote:
>> There is great good and great evil in man. That's what makes him so 
>> fascinating and why fighting is such a necessary sport to give an 
>> outlet for all that aggression.
> 
> Only man creates the categories of good and evil.
> Science does not include them

   The Real World exists. What any of that MEANS,
   entirely our own inventions.

   And those inventions tend to CHANGE over time.

   Yea, kinda Nietzsche-esque ...

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#61762

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2024-12-06 07:46 +0000
Message-ID<lrfoe1F73hpU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#61759
On Fri, 6 Dec 2024 01:48:53 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> On 12/5/24 4:36 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 05/12/2024 09:31, D wrote:
>>> There is great good and great evil in man. That's what makes him so
>>> fascinating and why fighting is such a necessary sport to give an
>>> outlet for all that aggression.
>> 
>> Only man creates the categories of good and evil.
>> Science does not include them
> 
>    The Real World exists. What any of that MEANS,
>    entirely our own inventions.
> 
>    And those inventions tend to CHANGE over time.
> 
>    Yea, kinda Nietzsche-esque ...

Beyond good and evil...  

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#61768

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-12-06 10:09 +0100
Message-ID<6465d1f8-6fab-e3bd-0345-86011937364d@example.net>
In reply to#61759

On Fri, 6 Dec 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> On 12/5/24 4:36 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 05/12/2024 09:31, D wrote:
>>> There is great good and great evil in man. That's what makes him so 
>>> fascinating and why fighting is such a necessary sport to give an outlet 
>>> for all that aggression.
>> 
>> Only man creates the categories of good and evil.
>> Science does not include them
>
>  The Real World exists. What any of that MEANS,
>  entirely our own inventions.
>
>  And those inventions tend to CHANGE over time.
>
>  Yea, kinda Nietzsche-esque ...
>

Don't even go there. Natural and I had very lively discussions on that 
theme. ;) But yes, I'm in the camp of the people who accept the real world 
as a fact, and that without humans, there's no ethics, math, true or 
false.

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#61774

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2024-12-06 13:31 +0000
Message-ID<viuubv$2bf1r$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61768
On 06/12/2024 09:09, D wrote:
> 
> 
> On Fri, 6 Dec 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> 
>> On 12/5/24 4:36 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 05/12/2024 09:31, D wrote:
>>>> There is great good and great evil in man. That's what makes him so 
>>>> fascinating and why fighting is such a necessary sport to give an 
>>>> outlet for all that aggression.
>>>
>>> Only man creates the categories of good and evil.
>>> Science does not include them
>>
>>  The Real World exists. What any of that MEANS,
>>  entirely our own inventions.
>>
>>  And those inventions tend to CHANGE over time.
>>
>>  Yea, kinda Nietzsche-esque ...
>>
> 
> Don't even go there. Natural and I had very lively discussions on that 
> theme. ;) But yes, I'm in the camp of the people who accept the real 
> world as a fact, and that without humans, there's no ethics, math, true 
> or false.

Its not that the real world is not at some level most usefully regarded 
as a fact, it is that the more subtle question is whether what we 
*perceive* is in fact the real world *at all*. Or simply a construction 
in our own minds that maps what is *actually* there (maybe a 
probabilistic entangled quantum soup) into a recognisable world of 
objects and events linked in space time by natural law and causality.

Kant's objection to that view (what you see is what is there), which 
formed the basis for classical science, has been ignored until the early 
20th century, when it began to re-emerge in the philosophy of science. 
Karl Popper's view that science was not the discovery of natural laws of 
fact, but rather the invention of testable theories that *fitted the 
facts*, was a direct response to Einstein and the quantum boys.

In that context Kant's views are of course a construction in their own 
right. As unprovable as the laws of science. But, like science, "it 
works, bitches"

And philosophy and physics are really coming together at last, with very 
smart people trying to come up with structures that work, that look 
nothing whatsoever like the ordinary world of our perceptions.

Science is of course a mere branch of philosophy - 'Natural philosophy'.



-- 
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

― Confucius

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#61780

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-12-06 18:18 +0100
Message-ID<54f23207-1fd4-4b7b-d53b-00f74c66ff0e@example.net>
In reply to#61774

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Fri, 6 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 06/12/2024 09:09, D wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, 6 Dec 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>> 
>>> On 12/5/24 4:36 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 05/12/2024 09:31, D wrote:
>>>>> There is great good and great evil in man. That's what makes him so 
>>>>> fascinating and why fighting is such a necessary sport to give an outlet 
>>>>> for all that aggression.
>>>> 
>>>> Only man creates the categories of good and evil.
>>>> Science does not include them
>>> 
>>>  The Real World exists. What any of that MEANS,
>>>  entirely our own inventions.
>>> 
>>>  And those inventions tend to CHANGE over time.
>>> 
>>>  Yea, kinda Nietzsche-esque ...
>>> 
>> 
>> Don't even go there. Natural and I had very lively discussions on that 
>> theme. ;) But yes, I'm in the camp of the people who accept the real world 
>> as a fact, and that without humans, there's no ethics, math, true or false.
>
> Its not that the real world is not at some level most usefully regarded as a 
> fact, it is that the more subtle question is whether what we *perceive* is in 
> fact the real world *at all*. Or simply a construction in our own minds that 
> maps what is *actually* there (maybe a probabilistic entangled quantum soup) 
> into a recognisable world of objects and events linked in space time by 
> natural law and causality.

I'd say it is an obvious fact and not a subtle question if we look at the
limited spectrum of our senses, and our limited compute resources. I think 
in terms of reality, it can be seen as a spectrum of probabilities about
things in the world. Many clever people cling to this, and think it means 
that no world exists, or that nothing can be proven. I reverse that, and 
say that any proposed alternatives to the real world should be proven, and 
if they are not, the real world is a perfectly reasonable default 
assumption.

> Kant's objection to that view (what you see is what is there), which formed 
> the basis for classical science, has been ignored until the early 20th 
> century, when it began to re-emerge in the philosophy of science. Karl 
> Popper's view that science was not the discovery of natural laws of fact, but 
> rather the invention of testable theories that *fitted the facts*, was a 
> direct response to Einstein and the quantum boys.
>
> In that context Kant's views are of course a construction in their own right. 
> As unprovable as the laws of science. But, like science, "it works, bitches"
>
> And philosophy and physics are really coming together at last, with very 
> smart people trying to come up with structures that work, that look nothing 
> whatsoever like the ordinary world of our perceptions.
>
> Science is of course a mere branch of philosophy - 'Natural philosophy'.
>
>
>
>

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#61826

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2024-12-07 13:22 +0000
Message-ID<vj1i5u$33eu5$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61780
On 06/12/2024 17:18, D wrote:
>>
>> Its not that the real world is not at some level most usefully 
>> regarded as a fact, it is that the more subtle question is whether 
>> what we *perceive* is in fact the real world *at all*. Or simply a 
>> construction in our own minds that maps what is *actually* there 
>> (maybe a probabilistic entangled quantum soup) into a recognisable 
>> world of objects and events linked in space time by natural law and 
>> causality.
> 
> I'd say it is an obvious fact and not a subtle question if we look at the
> limited spectrum of our senses, and our limited compute resources. I 
> think in terms of reality, it can be seen as a spectrum of probabilities 
> about
> things in the world. Many clever people cling to this, and think it 
> means that no world exists, or that nothing can be proven.

Well the concept that no world exists is called Idealism.  It's all in 
the mind. Mine  alone [solipsism],  Gods [monism], or some other 
arrangement. It explains everything but predicts nothing. Like Islam. 
Inshallah. If it is Gods Will. Great, But not very *helpful*.

'Nothing can be proven' is in fact the case, and the whole problem and 
the disjunct between the mind of the ordinary person and that of 
philosophers.

Only deductive logic is provable, But all science and everyday life 
rests on inductive logic and inference.

On 'probable cause'.

My late mother was convinced that people were coming in to her house and 
hiding her car keys. So she started putting them in places no one, 
including herself, would think to look.

But with short term memory loss, she couldn't find them again, thus 
reinforcing the original belief.

The neighbours were a plausible if somewhat paranoid explanation. For 
someone in her condition.

It's the same with conspiracy theories. They are plausible to people 
without the background to reject them as extremely unlikely. How many 
people believed in WMD in Iraq?

  I reverse
> that, and say that any proposed alternatives to the real world should be 
> proven, and if they are not, the real world is a perfectly reasonable 
> default assumption.

The problem is that no alternatives can be *proven*,  and indeed while 
the 'real world' is a perfectly reasonable *assumption*, it starts to 
crack a little under the strain of modern physics. And indeed some 
psychology and other pressures. It cannot be 'proven' *either*.
It is as you correctly say a default *assumption*.


Left wing idealists would argue that the world is simply what you think 
it is and can be changed by 'magical thinking'. To them this is more 
than plausible, it is self evident *fact*.

My point in advocating the philosophy of Kant et al, is that it solves 
problems that mere materialism does not.

Neither can be proved correct, but in the context of modern  life 
'transcendental idealism' may prove to be (sic!) more *useful*.

It accounts for the subjective element of experience. It allows time to 
pass differently for different observers.

Pure materialism insist that time and space are immutable, they are 
there as the framework of all material existence. Einstein says that 
they are in fact relative to the observer.

Oh dear.


-- 
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will 
let them."


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#61849

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-12-07 17:50 +0100
Message-ID<c31c72f8-7f47-2107-ce24-00a96f19811a@example.net>
In reply to#61826

On Sat, 7 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 06/12/2024 17:18, D wrote:
>>> 
>>> Its not that the real world is not at some level most usefully regarded as 
>>> a fact, it is that the more subtle question is whether what we *perceive* 
>>> is in fact the real world *at all*. Or simply a construction in our own 
>>> minds that maps what is *actually* there (maybe a probabilistic entangled 
>>> quantum soup) into a recognisable world of objects and events linked in 
>>> space time by natural law and causality.
>> 
>> I'd say it is an obvious fact and not a subtle question if we look at the
>> limited spectrum of our senses, and our limited compute resources. I think 
>> in terms of reality, it can be seen as a spectrum of probabilities about
>> things in the world. Many clever people cling to this, and think it means 
>> that no world exists, or that nothing can be proven.
>
> Well the concept that no world exists is called Idealism.  It's all in the 
> mind. Mine  alone [solipsism],  Gods [monism], or some other arrangement. It 
> explains everything but predicts nothing. Like Islam. Inshallah. If it is 
> Gods Will. Great, But not very *helpful*.
>
> 'Nothing can be proven' is in fact the case, and the whole problem and the 
> disjunct between the mind of the ordinary person and that of philosophers.
>
> Only deductive logic is provable, But all science and everyday life rests on 
> inductive logic and inference.
>
> On 'probable cause'.
>
> My late mother was convinced that people were coming in to her house and 
> hiding her car keys. So she started putting them in places no one, including 
> herself, would think to look.
>
> But with short term memory loss, she couldn't find them again, thus 
> reinforcing the original belief.
>
> The neighbours were a plausible if somewhat paranoid explanation. For someone 
> in her condition.
>
> It's the same with conspiracy theories. They are plausible to people without 
> the background to reject them as extremely unlikely. How many people believed 
> in WMD in Iraq?
>
> I reverse
>> that, and say that any proposed alternatives to the real world should be 
>> proven, and if they are not, the real world is a perfectly reasonable 
>> default assumption.
>
> The problem is that no alternatives can be *proven*,  and indeed while the 
> 'real world' is a perfectly reasonable *assumption*, it starts to crack a 
> little under the strain of modern physics. And indeed some psychology and 
> other pressures. It cannot be 'proven' *either*.
> It is as you correctly say a default *assumption*.

My great revelation is that it does not need to be proven, since we are 
all in it, and seem to act as if it actually exists and works as it does.

That is why I'm very happy to dismiss idealists. I also agree that 
idealists will have a hard time to prove their position or reason to it. 
They have not stopped though, after millenia of trying, and they probably 
won't.

>
> Left wing idealists would argue that the world is simply what you think it is 
> and can be changed by 'magical thinking'. To them this is more than 
> plausible, it is self evident *fact*.
>
> My point in advocating the philosophy of Kant et al, is that it solves 
> problems that mere materialism does not.
>
> Neither can be proved correct, but in the context of modern  life 
> 'transcendental idealism' may prove to be (sic!) more *useful*.
>
> It accounts for the subjective element of experience. It allows time to pass 
> differently for different observers.
>
> Pure materialism insist that time and space are immutable, they are there as 
> the framework of all material existence. Einstein says that they are in fact 
> relative to the observer.

I think I use materialism in a way more comprehensive and all encompassing 
way, than might be customary. Maybe that is why there is confusion. As 
long as the quantum guys continue to provide testable hypotheses, I'm all 
for it. Where I at the moment get off the train, is when they get all 
excited about many worlds & co, since that by definition can never be 
tested, nor can it ever influence our world in any way. I like 
Wittgensteins silence on that matter, have my concept of agnostic monism, 
once our theories are starting to tear at the seams.

> Oh dear.
>
>
>

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#61872

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2024-12-07 18:45 +0000
Message-ID<lrjjdhFpi64U5@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#61826
On Sat, 7 Dec 2024 13:22:06 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> Well the concept that no world exists is called Idealism.  It's all in
> the mind. Mine  alone [solipsism],  Gods [monism], or some other
> arrangement. It explains everything but predicts nothing. Like Islam.
> Inshallah. If it is Gods Will. Great, But not very *helpful*.

I like the Epicurean approach, which was probably a concession to the 
times. The Gods exist on a planet somewhere but don't give a damn about 
humans. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61877

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2024-12-07 19:10 +0000
Message-ID<vj26ib$381or$9@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61872
On 07/12/2024 18:45, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 7 Dec 2024 13:22:06 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> Well the concept that no world exists is called Idealism.  It's all in
>> the mind. Mine  alone [solipsism],  Gods [monism], or some other
>> arrangement. It explains everything but predicts nothing. Like Islam.
>> Inshallah. If it is Gods Will. Great, But not very *helpful*.
> 
> I like the Epicurean approach, which was probably a concession to the
> times. The Gods exist on a planet somewhere but don't give a damn about
> humans.

Yes.

Humans became aware that Great Forces  existed, capable of wiping out 
civilisations on a whim.  Disease, famine, war - all these struck with 
no discernible reason. It must be some bastards of Gods who were clearly 
not nice kind people at all.  No matter how many offerings you left for 
them.

The concept of a god who actually gave a shit was relatively late to the 
game, and proved extremely helpful in getting barbarians to play nice 
with each other and submit to Roman overlords "you will all get your 
rewards in heaven:  Don't expect any now".

We just muddle through. Until we don't.

We bemoan the fact that so many people are so stupid, and fail to 
envision the utter chaos that would ensue  if they were not.


-- 
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on 
its shoes.

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#61889

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2024-12-07 19:57 +0000
Message-ID<jM15P.18654$xPr6.11173@fx10.iad>
In reply to#61872
On 2024-12-07, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 7 Dec 2024 13:22:06 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> Well the concept that no world exists is called Idealism.  It's all in
>> the mind. Mine  alone [solipsism],  Gods [monism], or some other
>> arrangement. It explains everything but predicts nothing. Like Islam.
>> Inshallah. If it is Gods Will. Great, But not very *helpful*.
>
> I like the Epicurean approach, which was probably a concession to the 
> times. The Gods exist on a planet somewhere but don't give a damn about 
> humans. 

Sounds like 21st-century oligarchs.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  Growth for the sake of
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  growth is the ideology
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  of the cancer cell.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Edward Abbey

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61892

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2024-12-07 20:16 +0000
Message-ID<vj2afk$381or$20@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61889
On 07/12/2024 19:57, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2024-12-07, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, 7 Dec 2024 13:22:06 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> Well the concept that no world exists is called Idealism.  It's all in
>>> the mind. Mine  alone [solipsism],  Gods [monism], or some other
>>> arrangement. It explains everything but predicts nothing. Like Islam.
>>> Inshallah. If it is Gods Will. Great, But not very *helpful*.
>>
>> I like the Epicurean approach, which was probably a concession to the
>> times. The Gods exist on a planet somewhere but don't give a damn about
>> humans.
> 
> Sounds like 21st-century oligarchs.
> 
Life imitates art.

-- 
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is 
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

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#61925

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2024-12-08 02:56 +0000
Message-ID<lrkg61Fu3vdU3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#61889
On Sat, 07 Dec 2024 19:57:03 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On 2024-12-07, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, 7 Dec 2024 13:22:06 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> Well the concept that no world exists is called Idealism.  It's all in
>>> the mind. Mine  alone [solipsism],  Gods [monism], or some other
>>> arrangement. It explains everything but predicts nothing. Like Islam.
>>> Inshallah. If it is Gods Will. Great, But not very *helpful*.
>>
>> I like the Epicurean approach, which was probably a concession to the
>> times. The Gods exist on a planet somewhere but don't give a damn about
>> humans.
> 
> Sounds like 21st-century oligarchs.

Not quite. The Epicureans thought the Gods, if they existed, were 
completely uninvolved rather than causing wars, taking sides in battles, 
fomenting unrest, and so forth. We'd be better off if the oligarchs were 
off in the Caribbean drinking, fornicating, or whatever oligarchs do when 
they're not starting wars for profit. 

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#61904

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-12-07 23:25 +0100
Message-ID<4e910c51-520b-be05-3b15-d710ef3533d7@example.net>
In reply to#61872

On Sat, 7 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 7 Dec 2024 13:22:06 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> Well the concept that no world exists is called Idealism.  It's all in
>> the mind. Mine  alone [solipsism],  Gods [monism], or some other
>> arrangement. It explains everything but predicts nothing. Like Islam.
>> Inshallah. If it is Gods Will. Great, But not very *helpful*.
>
> I like the Epicurean approach, which was probably a concession to the
> times. The Gods exist on a planet somewhere but don't give a damn about
> humans.
>

Yes... I think that an enormously impressive feat of thinking and 
philosophy for being that old. The along came Nietzsche and took the next 
logical step. ;)

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#61790

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2024-12-06 20:51 +0000
Message-ID<lrh6e1FdnlbU4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#61768
On Fri, 6 Dec 2024 10:09:11 +0100, D wrote:

> Don't even go there. Natural and I had very lively discussions on that
> theme.  But yes, I'm in the camp of the people who accept the real world
> as a fact, and that without humans, there's no ethics, math, true or
> false.

Buddhism has the concept of two truths, conventional and ultimate. 
Conventionally I went out this morning to feed two cats. Ultimately 'cat' 
is a construct I imposed and there aren't two of anything. 

https://thebuddhistcentre.com/system/files/groups/files/heart_sutra.pdf

Nietzsche condensed into a couple of hundred Chinese ideograms...

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#61812

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-12-07 11:20 +0100
Message-ID<a97cff3a-7a2a-2797-f17f-4fa39a18a523@example.net>
In reply to#61790

On Fri, 6 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Fri, 6 Dec 2024 10:09:11 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> Don't even go there. Natural and I had very lively discussions on that
>> theme.  But yes, I'm in the camp of the people who accept the real world
>> as a fact, and that without humans, there's no ethics, math, true or
>> false.
>
> Buddhism has the concept of two truths, conventional and ultimate.
> Conventionally I went out this morning to feed two cats. Ultimately 'cat'
> is a construct I imposed and there aren't two of anything.
>
> https://thebuddhistcentre.com/system/files/groups/files/heart_sutra.pdf
>
> Nietzsche condensed into a couple of hundred Chinese ideograms...

Buddha seems to have been far ahead of his time. I really like his 
position on god, that instead of speculating, they should "shut up and 
meditate". ;)

On the other hand, I do not know if this is what he actually thought, or 
if it is just hearsay.

I tried for a bit, to try and "distill" original buddhism, and although it 
was difficult to find anything specific, my feeling was that original 
buddhism was more about doing, rather than speculating, so heavily 
meditation focused, and not very speculation focused.

Another thing I found out was also that original buddhism was heavily 
adapted to the individual (naturally) where buddha tried to tailor the 
techniques and teachings to the individual he was talking with, and that 
is why it started to diverge over the millennia.

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#61831

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2024-12-07 13:43 +0000
Message-ID<vj1jdg$33eu5$7@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61812
On 07/12/2024 10:20, D wrote:
> 
> 
> On Fri, 6 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 6 Dec 2024 10:09:11 +0100, D wrote:
>>
>>> Don't even go there. Natural and I had very lively discussions on that
>>> theme.  But yes, I'm in the camp of the people who accept the real world
>>> as a fact, and that without humans, there's no ethics, math, true or
>>> false.
>>
>> Buddhism has the concept of two truths, conventional and ultimate.
>> Conventionally I went out this morning to feed two cats. Ultimately 'cat'
>> is a construct I imposed and there aren't two of anything.
>>
>> https://thebuddhistcentre.com/system/files/groups/files/heart_sutra.pdf
>>
>> Nietzsche condensed into a couple of hundred Chinese ideograms...
> 
> Buddha seems to have been far ahead of his time. I really like his 
> position on god, that instead of speculating, they should "shut up and 
> meditate". ;)
> 
There are states of mind that can be achieved that clarify  why people 
started talking about gods and spirits and other realms in the first place.


> On the other hand, I do not know if this is what he actually thought, or 
> if it is just hearsay.
> 
Does it matter?

The sound of one hand clapping is a phrase that seems to make sense, in 
that you understand all the words, but it points to an impossible or 
meaningless event.

The intention is to guide the student away from a dependence on the 
reality of words to a reality beyond them.


> I tried for a bit, to try and "distill" original buddhism, and although 
> it was difficult to find anything specific, my feeling was that original 
> buddhism was more about doing, rather than speculating, so heavily 
> meditation focused, and not very speculation focused.
> 
Buddhism is what one bloke said after he had successfully stopped his 
mind from thinking but yet wasn't actually unconscious. And a set of 
instructions on how to copy his techniques.

I met a guy once who spent a long time doing that, who had also taken 
LSD He claimed that 'the end result is the same, but the LSD is much 
easier, and a bit more dangerous'.

:-)

> Another thing I found out was also that original buddhism was heavily 
> adapted to the individual (naturally) where buddha tried to tailor the 
> techniques and teachings to the individual he was talking with, and that 
> is why it started to diverge over the millennia.

Yes. If you regard the primary purpose as detaching the consciousness 
from the intricate entanglement with ordinary affairs, which as far as I 
am concerned is all that it is, then the method will differ for each 
individual since their involvements all differ.

Stopping the incessant flow of internal conversation is the name of the 
game, and it's (meditation)  not the only way to do that. Trauma does 
it.  Isolation and asceticism does it. Self punishment (flagellation) 
allegedly does it. Even lack of sleep does it. Some drugs do it.



-- 
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

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#61853

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-12-07 17:57 +0100
Message-ID<fbaf5171-c4c9-09e0-0fc4-fcfeef316f33@example.net>
In reply to#61831

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

On Sat, 7 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 07/12/2024 10:20, D wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, 6 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
>> 
>>> On Fri, 6 Dec 2024 10:09:11 +0100, D wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Don't even go there. Natural and I had very lively discussions on that
>>>> theme.  But yes, I'm in the camp of the people who accept the real world
>>>> as a fact, and that without humans, there's no ethics, math, true or
>>>> false.
>>> 
>>> Buddhism has the concept of two truths, conventional and ultimate.
>>> Conventionally I went out this morning to feed two cats. Ultimately 'cat'
>>> is a construct I imposed and there aren't two of anything.
>>> 
>>> https://thebuddhistcentre.com/system/files/groups/files/heart_sutra.pdf
>>> 
>>> Nietzsche condensed into a couple of hundred Chinese ideograms...
>> 
>> Buddha seems to have been far ahead of his time. I really like his position 
>> on god, that instead of speculating, they should "shut up and meditate". ;)
>> 
> There are states of mind that can be achieved that clarify  why people 
> started talking about gods and spirits and other realms in the first place.
>
>
>> On the other hand, I do not know if this is what he actually thought, or if 
>> it is just hearsay.
>> 
> Does it matter?
>
> The sound of one hand clapping is a phrase that seems to make sense, in that 
> you understand all the words, but it points to an impossible or meaningless 
> event.
>
> The intention is to guide the student away from a dependence on the reality 
> of words to a reality beyond them.
>
>
>> I tried for a bit, to try and "distill" original buddhism, and although it 
>> was difficult to find anything specific, my feeling was that original 
>> buddhism was more about doing, rather than speculating, so heavily 
>> meditation focused, and not very speculation focused.
>> 
> Buddhism is what one bloke said after he had successfully stopped his mind 
> from thinking but yet wasn't actually unconscious. And a set of instructions 
> on how to copy his techniques.
>
> I met a guy once who spent a long time doing that, who had also taken LSD He 
> claimed that 'the end result is the same, but the LSD is much easier, and a 
> bit more dangerous'.
>
> :-)
>
>> Another thing I found out was also that original buddhism was heavily 
>> adapted to the individual (naturally) where buddha tried to tailor the 
>> techniques and teachings to the individual he was talking with, and that is 
>> why it started to diverge over the millennia.
>
> Yes. If you regard the primary purpose as detaching the consciousness from 
> the intricate entanglement with ordinary affairs, which as far as I am 
> concerned is all that it is, then the method will differ for each individual 
> since their involvements all differ.
>
> Stopping the incessant flow of internal conversation is the name of the game, 
> and it's (meditation)  not the only way to do that. Trauma does it. 
> Isolation and asceticism does it. Self punishment (flagellation) allegedly 
> does it. Even lack of sleep does it. Some drugs do it.

I think it can even happen spontaneously, and then there's near death 
experiences as well.

That brings me to the thought, since psylocybin and other mushrooms are 
now starting to become so common, if there's something to be gained by 
doing it the natural way instead of "shocking" the mind with external 
drugs?

The reason I'm thinking about it is that I 've read about 
underground trip-clinics where people get "hooked" on the spiritual 
experience of merging with the universe. They want to experience it again 
and again.

Contrast that with a buddhist monk who trained meditation for decades, and 
then has his realization. He might be a kind and loving man, with enormous 
compassion, continuing with his meditation and helping people.

The young man in the trip-clinic, goes there once a week to get his dose 
of spirituality.

Is this good or bad? Is there a component that favours one or the other 
method?

I have a business colleague who is afraid of death. He went to an 
underground clinic and took a trip, and for a week or two afterwards he 
felt more in tune with the world and more spiritual and even hesitated to 
kill mosquitoes out of compassion. But then the effect started to wear off 
as life came back.

I don't know if it did anything long term, about his fear of death.

For me, the tetrapharmakon is as good a treatment as any! =)

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#61865

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2024-12-07 18:31 +0000
Message-ID<vj24a6$381or$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61853
On 07/12/2024 16:57, D wrote:
> 
> 
> On Sat, 7 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> On 07/12/2024 10:20, D wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 6 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 6 Dec 2024 10:09:11 +0100, D wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Don't even go there. Natural and I had very lively discussions on that
>>>>> theme.  But yes, I'm in the camp of the people who accept the real 
>>>>> world
>>>>> as a fact, and that without humans, there's no ethics, math, true or
>>>>> false.
>>>>
>>>> Buddhism has the concept of two truths, conventional and ultimate.
>>>> Conventionally I went out this morning to feed two cats. Ultimately 
>>>> 'cat'
>>>> is a construct I imposed and there aren't two of anything.
>>>>
>>>> https://thebuddhistcentre.com/system/files/groups/files/heart_sutra.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Nietzsche condensed into a couple of hundred Chinese ideograms...
>>>
>>> Buddha seems to have been far ahead of his time. I really like his 
>>> position on god, that instead of speculating, they should "shut up 
>>> and meditate". ;)
>>>
>> There are states of mind that can be achieved that clarify  why people 
>> started talking about gods and spirits and other realms in the first 
>> place.
>>
>>
>>> On the other hand, I do not know if this is what he actually thought, 
>>> or if it is just hearsay.
>>>
>> Does it matter?
>>
>> The sound of one hand clapping is a phrase that seems to make sense, 
>> in that you understand all the words, but it points to an impossible 
>> or meaningless event.
>>
>> The intention is to guide the student away from a dependence on the 
>> reality of words to a reality beyond them.
>>
>>
>>> I tried for a bit, to try and "distill" original buddhism, and 
>>> although it was difficult to find anything specific, my feeling was 
>>> that original buddhism was more about doing, rather than speculating, 
>>> so heavily meditation focused, and not very speculation focused.
>>>
>> Buddhism is what one bloke said after he had successfully stopped his 
>> mind from thinking but yet wasn't actually unconscious. And a set of 
>> instructions on how to copy his techniques.
>>
>> I met a guy once who spent a long time doing that, who had also taken 
>> LSD He claimed that 'the end result is the same, but the LSD is much 
>> easier, and a bit more dangerous'.
>>
>> :-)
>>
>>> Another thing I found out was also that original buddhism was heavily 
>>> adapted to the individual (naturally) where buddha tried to tailor 
>>> the techniques and teachings to the individual he was talking with, 
>>> and that is why it started to diverge over the millennia.
>>
>> Yes. If you regard the primary purpose as detaching the consciousness 
>> from the intricate entanglement with ordinary affairs, which as far as 
>> I am concerned is all that it is, then the method will differ for each 
>> individual since their involvements all differ.
>>
>> Stopping the incessant flow of internal conversation is the name of 
>> the game, and it's (meditation)  not the only way to do that. Trauma 
>> does it. Isolation and asceticism does it. Self punishment 
>> (flagellation) allegedly does it. Even lack of sleep does it. Some 
>> drugs do it.
> 
> I think it can even happen spontaneously, and then there's near death 
> experiences as well.
> 
The ultimate trauma...

> That brings me to the thought, since psylocybin and other mushrooms are 
> now starting to become so common, if there's something to be gained by 
> doing it the natural way instead of "shocking" the mind with external 
> drugs?
> 
Depends on the person.  Drugs are supremely violent and the moment or 
revelations may well be too much for people to survive mentally intact...

There isn't much point in achieving enlightenment if you are then unable 
to cope with daily life.

"Before enlightenment, chopping wood, fetching water: After 
enlightenment chopping wood, fetching water"

:-)


> The reason I'm thinking about it is that I 've read about underground 
> trip-clinics where people get "hooked" on the spiritual experience of 
> merging with the universe. They want to experience it again and again.
> 
Bliss junkies.

It inst an escape. They probably gave em fentanyl. They knocked me out 
with that for my last operation. Wow!

> Contrast that with a buddhist monk who trained meditation for decades, 
> and then has his realization. He might be a kind and loving man, with 
> enormous compassion, continuing with his meditation and helping people.
> 
Indeed.

> The young man in the trip-clinic, goes there once a week to get his dose 
> of spirituality.
> 
Or down the club for a bit of Ecstasy.

There is a reason psychedelics are no longer in vogue. They don't 
guarantee a good time at all. In fact they can deliver a seriously bad 
one. Hence Ecstasy - a cross between an amphetamine and a psychedelic.

> Is this good or bad? Is there a component that favours one or the other 
> method?
> 
Depends on the person. I think you need to be very strong to survive any 
drug. But weak people are attracted.



> I have a business colleague who is afraid of death. He went to an 
> underground clinic and took a trip, and for a week or two afterwards he 
> felt more in tune with the world and more spiritual and even hesitated 
> to kill mosquitoes out of compassion. But then the effect started to 
> wear off as life came back.
> 
Psychedelics destroy your current world view. You can then find 
alternative ones, or end up with none at all, in a mental institution, 
but your normal one is a deep groove to escape from...its like they are 
a tool to modify the metaphysics. But they are no guarantee the 
modification will hold.

This is the world we have to live in - unless we are extremely 
permanently  'enlightened'


> I don't know if it did anything long term, about his fear of death.
> 
> For me, the tetrapharmakon is as good a treatment as any! =)

"In my life, I have travelled many paths,
into the bush and out of it
But I am not anywhere.
For me there is only the travelling on paths with heart
On any path with heart
And their I travel looking breathlessly"

"But how can one know a path with heart?"

"Any fool can know that, the problem is that no one asks the question"



-- 
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will 
let them."


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