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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #61095 > unrolled thread

Joy of this, Joy of that

Started byroot <NoEMail@home.org>
First post2024-11-19 17:09 +0000
Last post2024-11-20 18:53 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 842 — 23 participants

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Contents

  Joy of this, Joy of that root <NoEMail@home.org> - 2024-11-19 17:09 +0000
    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-20 00:18 +0000
      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that root <NoEMail@home.org> - 2024-11-20 02:33 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-20 02:52 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-20 04:46 +0000
    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-20 03:37 -0500
      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-20 15:46 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-20 16:03 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-21 02:20 -0500
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-21 08:14 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Bozo User <anthk@disroot.org> - 2025-01-14 12:03 +0000
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-21 13:41 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Don_from_AZ <djatechNOSPAM@comcast.net.invalid> - 2024-11-21 20:19 -0700
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-22 05:51 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-22 23:57 -0500
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 05:31 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-23 20:23 -0500
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-24 02:06 +0000
                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-24 00:16 -0500
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-24 05:14 +0000
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-23 11:16 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-23 19:39 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2024-11-23 13:46 -0700
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-24 14:33 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 21:57 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-23 20:17 -0500
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-24 05:26 +0000
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-24 14:37 +0000
                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-24 14:39 +0000
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-24 17:00 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-24 22:07 +0100
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 02:12 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-25 10:55 +0100
                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-25 12:04 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-25 22:20 +0100
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 23:55 +0000
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-26 10:10 +0100
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-26 10:24 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-26 13:17 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-11-26 09:15 -0500
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-27 09:34 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-26 18:57 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-26 21:58 +0100
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-27 01:38 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-27 01:40 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-27 10:10 +0100
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-27 11:58 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-27 19:12 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-28 09:18 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-25 21:49 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-27 01:39 -0500
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-27 22:13 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-27 22:46 -0500
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-28 05:46 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-28 02:56 -0500
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-28 08:52 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 04:48 -0500
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-29 19:32 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-28 21:36 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 05:06 -0500
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-29 18:06 +0000
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-30 00:16 -0500
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-30 06:23 +0000
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 06:53 +0000
                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 09:30 +0000
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-30 23:14 +0000
                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-01 04:19 -0500
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 11:21 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-01 16:27 +0000
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-02 23:28 -0500
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 18:41 +0100
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-02 00:37 -0500
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-01 20:47 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-02 23:57 -0500
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 21:27 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-02 23:58 -0500
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 10:51 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:30 +0000
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:26 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-05 01:03 -0500
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 10:25 +0100
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 01:13 -0500
                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 07:43 +0000
                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 10:12 +0100
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 02:30 +0000
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 22:59 -0500
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:32 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-07 16:15 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 18:39 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:35 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:57 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:43 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:12 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-08 03:02 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 08:09 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-08 16:33 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-08 18:19 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-08 19:50 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 11:49 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-08 19:50 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 21:50 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 12:09 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2024-12-08 04:45 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 12:53 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-08 03:05 -0500
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:26 +0100
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:49 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-07 10:15 -0500
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 16:40 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-07 12:44 -0500
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:47 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:30 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 18:24 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:37 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:57 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 20:16 +0000
                                                                                          Re: The Joy Of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:37 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 00:03 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:19 +0100
                                                                                      Re: The Joy Of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:36 +0000
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 22:41 -0500
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:29 +0100
                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 22:40 -0500
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 04:50 +0000
                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 10:06 +0100
                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 23:27 -0500
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:40 +0100
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-08 02:05 -0500
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 13:39 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-08 19:50 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-09 01:22 -0500
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-09 15:28 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 15:58 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-09 21:53 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:29 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 20:09 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 22:23 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 10:09 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:39 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 22:15 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-10 04:41 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:50 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 10:07 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-10 19:52 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 22:06 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-12 03:38 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 10:49 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-13 04:56 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-13 02:20 -0500
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 08:38 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:42 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:41 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-13 11:32 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 20:01 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:48 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:40 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 13:15 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:09 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-14 18:17 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:34 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-14 05:18 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 13:08 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 13:51 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:15 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-09 11:39 -0800
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 20:22 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 09:52 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-12 03:07 -0500
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 08:22 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-12 08:13 -0800
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-13 01:55 -0500
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 08:30 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-13 07:53 -0800
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:45 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:38 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 20:14 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:53 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 11:13 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-14 18:28 +0000
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-05 20:49 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 23:33 -0500
                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-07 07:54 +0000
                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-08 02:44 -0500
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-29 21:42 +0000
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-30 00:19 -0500
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-30 06:22 +0000
                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-01 03:39 -0500
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-01 09:03 +0000
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 11:08 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-01 20:46 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-12-02 07:13 +1000
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-01 23:26 +0000
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-02 01:06 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-28 05:52 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-28 02:47 -0500
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-11-25 19:39 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-11-26 07:09 -0500
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-26 19:31 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 09:02 -0800
                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-02 18:55 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-12-02 23:25 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-03 00:59 +0000
                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-02 23:23 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-03 00:53 -0500
                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-24 22:06 +0100
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-25 08:03 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-25 10:58 +0100
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-21 17:25 +0000
      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-11-20 08:10 -0800
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-20 16:31 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-20 17:54 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-20 19:02 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-20 21:05 +0000
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-11-20 23:30 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-20 23:58 +0000
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-11-21 01:50 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-21 02:48 +0000
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-11-22 20:30 +0000
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-21 08:09 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-21 10:45 -0500
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-21 23:04 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-21 20:31 -0500
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-22 03:54 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-22 01:25 -0500
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-22 18:53 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-22 21:04 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-22 10:35 +0000
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-22 13:37 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-22 19:30 +0000
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-22 21:03 +0000
                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-23 07:09 +0000
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-22 23:07 +0000
                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 00:44 +0000
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-23 01:08 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 01:41 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-23 08:26 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-23 11:25 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 21:36 +0000
                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-23 23:48 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-24 00:31 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-24 21:19 +0000
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-24 22:36 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-24 05:01 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-24 21:29 +0000
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-24 22:37 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-25 11:48 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-25 21:47 +0000
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 01:43 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-25 10:53 +0100
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 19:42 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-25 23:21 +0100
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 23:37 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-26 10:09 +0100
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-26 19:17 +0000
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-26 21:59 +0100
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 15:21 -0800
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-12-02 23:28 +0000
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 03:46 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-24 19:35 -0500
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-25 00:36 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 01:41 -0500
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-25 06:47 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 21:50 -0500
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-26 03:00 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-25 10:56 +0100
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 21:58 -0500
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-26 04:03 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-26 10:12 +0100
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-27 01:58 -0500
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-27 10:12 +0100
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-27 19:06 +0000
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-27 21:26 +0100
                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-28 19:59 +0000
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-28 21:53 +0100
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-27 23:12 -0500
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-28 05:54 +0000
                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-28 02:22 -0500
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-28 08:38 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 03:18 -0500
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 13:18 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-30 01:18 +0000
                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-28 11:04 +0100
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-28 18:22 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-28 21:52 +0100
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 04:24 -0500
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 13:22 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 23:42 -0500
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 06:25 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 09:28 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 12:02 +0100
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-29 18:39 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 23:44 -0500
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 03:21 -0500
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-29 10:29 +0100
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 13:24 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-29 18:23 +0000
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 21:01 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-29 22:51 +0100
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 00:17 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 11:52 +0100
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-29 22:43 +0000
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 09:24 +0000
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-29 18:53 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-29 22:52 +0100
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 00:21 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 11:53 +0100
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 23:31 -0500
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 07:00 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 12:05 +0100
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 13:19 +0000
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-29 18:57 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 21:04 +0000
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-29 22:54 +0100
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 00:07 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-29 22:53 +0100
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 00:12 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 09:18 +0000
                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 12:06 +0100
                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 18:47 +0000
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 21:56 +0100
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 01:15 +0000
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 11:18 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 18:47 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 22:11 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 13:19 -0800
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 02:21 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 10:04 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:09 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 21:24 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 01:37 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 11:09 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 18:55 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:59 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-05 00:35 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 10:22 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-05 21:19 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 09:56 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:46 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:24 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:25 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:51 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 02:30 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:27 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:54 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 18:27 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:39 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:20 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:40 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 11:54 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 18:40 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:23 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 02:44 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 12:06 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 21:23 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 10:29 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 22:06 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 10:02 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-10 19:41 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 22:03 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-12-08 09:29 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:50 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-07 10:18 -0500
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 16:41 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-07 12:48 -0500
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:34 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:56 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:39 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-08 04:52 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-05 07:55 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 11:07 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 15:06 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 14:27 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 21:37 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 10:34 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 21:16 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 20:50 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:24 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:18 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 14:08 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 14:29 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:49 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 00:42 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:35 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:10 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 14:07 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 14:25 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:47 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:10 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 14:05 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 17:44 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:52 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-05 01:18 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 10:24 +0100
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 10:44 +0000
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 10:42 +0000
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 18:38 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 20:57 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 22:15 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-02 02:17 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 11:16 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-12-02 07:23 +1000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 10:25 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 11:17 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 11:01 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 15:04 +0100
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 20:40 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 11:14 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 15:06 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 14:28 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 21:38 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 03:54 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 10:39 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:00 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 21:18 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 20:53 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 00:32 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:07 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:25 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:20 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-04 17:57 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 00:30 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:35 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 19:13 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 22:01 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 11:58 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-02 18:49 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 21:40 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 02:59 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 10:08 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 10:45 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 18:53 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 21:21 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 20:55 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 00:24 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:33 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-04 17:57 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:27 +0100
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:21 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 14:09 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 14:29 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:50 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-05 07:57 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 17:50 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:53 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 00:20 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:32 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 21:19 +0100
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 11:52 +0100
                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 18:44 +0000
                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 21:54 +0100
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 01:09 +0000
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-01 03:50 -0500
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 10:54 +0000
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 11:15 +0100
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 10:46 +0000
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 19:29 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 11:09 +0000
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-01 10:36 +0000
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 18:32 +0100
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-01 18:49 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 22:11 +0100
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 19:13 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 22:14 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-02 01:50 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 10:26 +0100
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 10:27 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 15:03 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 14:26 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 21:36 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2024-12-04 04:03 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 11:10 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 12:13 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 14:07 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-04 14:27 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:47 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 19:02 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 22:00 +0100
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-05 01:51 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 10:31 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-05 09:36 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 13:17 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 01:51 -0500
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 10:11 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:41 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:23 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 19:54 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 21:40 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:23 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:50 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:10 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 22:57 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-07 01:04 -0500
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:23 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-07 00:55 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 08:17 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:52 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 14:12 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:50 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 14:20 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 18:33 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:46 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:29 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 01:48 -0500
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 07:46 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 10:09 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:31 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:18 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:22 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:50 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 18:45 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:10 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:57 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 20:16 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 02:56 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:25 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 20:51 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:20 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:43 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:57 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:31 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:07 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:37 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 11:52 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 01:39 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 11:59 +0100
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 21:45 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 10:33 +0100
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:13 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:41 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-09 21:57 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 09:59 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:54 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:32 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 22:12 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 10:05 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:56 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:35 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 21:11 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:09 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 02:06 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 12:04 +0100
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 21:13 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 10:26 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 11:56 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:51 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 09:58 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:54 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 21:14 +0100
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-10 19:50 +0000
                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 22:04 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 23:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-11 10:57 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:21 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 19:20 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:37 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 19:16 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:37 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:36 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 03:36 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 12:10 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 22:31 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 10:43 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 23:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 10:20 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-10 19:31 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 22:03 +0100
                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-11 01:44 +0000
                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-11 11:03 +0100
                                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 01:11 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 10:21 +0100
                                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 20:08 +0000
                                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 21:31 +0100
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 01:29 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:13 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 20:28 +0000
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:57 +0100
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 13:03 +0000
                                                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:40 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 19:57 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 12:11 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-15 12:37 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 19:28 +0100
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-13 10:42 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 20:18 +0000
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:54 +0100
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 11:18 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:02 +0100
                                                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 18:37 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 23:01 +0100
                                                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-14 18:43 +0000
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 19:59 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-15 00:33 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 11:25 +0100
                                                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 23:05 +0100
                                                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-15 01:04 +0000
                                                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 11:27 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 11:17 +0000
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 11:28 +0100
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 13:14 +0000
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 19:07 +0100
                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of Translation Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-12-11 12:33 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of Translation Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2024-12-11 15:16 +0000
                                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 01:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of Translation Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-12 05:06 +0000
                                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 08:24 +0000
                                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of Translation D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 10:37 +0100
                                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 20:15 +0000
                                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of Translation D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 21:33 +0100
                                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 01:47 +0000
                                                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of Translation D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:20 +0100
                                                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of Translation rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 20:50 +0000
                                                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of Translation D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 12:00 +0100
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:42 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-10 19:58 +0000
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 21:12 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-10 22:49 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:37 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:12 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 11:18 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:21 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 19:49 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 19:14 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:35 +0100
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:18 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:12 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-07 02:41 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:52 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:00 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:45 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 18:32 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:09 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-08 00:28 -0500
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 12:24 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:42 +0100
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 17:07 +0000
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 22:57 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:30 +0000
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 11:51 +0100
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 11:59 +0000
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 17:39 +0100
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 16:54 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 22:48 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 22:26 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 11:48 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-08 12:15 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 21:50 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 11:55 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:39 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:26 +0000
                                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 22:38 +0000
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 10:43 +0100
                                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:40 +0000
                                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:44 +0100
                                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:48 +0000
                                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 09:56 +0100
                                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-08 00:31 -0500
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-08 08:13 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-08 12:14 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-08 19:50 +0000
                                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-08 12:11 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-08 21:49 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 11:54 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:38 +0100
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-10 00:19 +0100
                                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-10 15:48 +0000
                                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-09 03:02 -0500
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:41 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-09 21:47 +0100
                                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-09 12:42 +0000
                                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-09 21:36 +0000
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-07 02:30 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-07 00:32 -0500
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:55 +0000
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-02 10:20 +0000
                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-02 15:02 +0100
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-03 00:30 -0500
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 10:13 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 10:54 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:14 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-03 21:25 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 01:15 +0000
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 10:37 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 18:48 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:56 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-04 00:44 -0500
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 11:12 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-04 07:58 -0800
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:52 +0100
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-05 01:37 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-05 07:16 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2024-12-06 04:02 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 05:39 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 10:29 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-05 01:28 -0500
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-05 07:34 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 01:31 -0500
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:09 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 20:33 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-07 00:19 -0500
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 05:37 +0000
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 13:30 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 19:07 +0000
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 23:43 -0500
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-07 05:29 +0000
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:43 +0100
                                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 14:07 +0000
                                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 18:30 +0100
                                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 18:43 +0000
                                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 23:25 +0100
                                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-07 14:02 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-04 18:15 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-04 21:55 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-05 01:42 -0500
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-05 07:27 +0000
                                                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-06 01:40 -0500
                                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 08:00 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-05 10:30 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-05 07:50 +0000
                                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org> - 2024-12-06 03:29 +0000
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 05:25 +0000
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 10:00 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:04 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:09 +0100
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 19:49 +0000
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 21:39 +0100
                                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-06 21:15 +0000
                                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-07 11:24 +0100
                                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 09:58 +0100
                                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-06 13:47 +0000
                                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-06 18:24 +0100
                                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2024-12-06 17:29 +0000
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 19:02 +0000
                                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-03 00:20 -0500
                                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-29 22:50 +0100
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-29 23:50 -0500
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-30 06:39 +0000
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-30 09:29 +0000
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-30 11:57 +0100
                                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-01 04:11 -0500
                                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 11:21 +0100
                                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-01 18:54 +0000
                                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-03 00:10 -0500
                                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:32 +0000
                                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-01 03:54 -0500
                                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-01 11:19 +0100
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 12:35 -0800
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-11-28 11:03 +0100
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 02:41 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 02:11 -0500
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-24 10:25 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-24 21:23 +0000
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 01:46 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 02:41 -0500
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-25 09:07 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 22:59 -0500
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-26 04:43 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-26 05:57 +0000
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-26 08:49 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-26 05:29 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-02 15:43 -0800
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-03 10:47 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-03 19:23 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 02:33 -0500
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-25 19:54 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-25 23:58 -0500
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-23 02:29 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-23 08:52 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-23 11:30 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-23 19:28 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-22 21:02 +0000
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-21 19:48 +0000
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-21 23:14 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-21 23:50 +0000
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-22 01:51 -0500
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-22 10:34 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-22 10:45 +0000
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-22 12:30 +0000
                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-22 18:53 +0000
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-11-22 20:40 +0000
                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-23 07:09 +0000
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 07:44 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-23 09:05 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-23 11:31 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-23 19:16 +0000
                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 21:48 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-23 19:47 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-23 10:16 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-23 11:34 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-23 19:16 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 21:45 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-24 12:46 +0000
                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-24 20:20 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-25 08:57 +0000
                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-25 21:48 +0000
                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-26 08:32 +0000
                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-26 21:22 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-26 21:30 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-26 21:36 +0000
                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2024-11-26 17:55 -0700
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-27 01:48 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-27 12:05 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-27 16:33 +0000
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-27 17:20 +0000
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-27 18:58 +0000
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-28 08:35 +0000
                                                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-28 09:16 +0000
                                                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-11-28 14:19 +0000
                                                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-28 18:19 +0000
                                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 10:11 +0000
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-27 22:11 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-27 18:32 +0000
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-28 09:16 +0000
                                                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-29 10:01 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-27 18:51 +0000
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-27 04:39 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2024-11-26 22:38 -0700
                                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-27 09:27 +0000
                                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-27 22:06 +0000
                                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-27 23:59 +0000
                                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-28 00:57 +0000
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-11-23 11:20 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 21:38 +0000
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-22 20:58 +0000
                        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-23 07:09 +0000
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 07:45 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-23 19:16 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-23 21:40 +0000
                                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-11-25 04:40 +0000
                                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-25 06:50 +0000
                                    Re: Joy of this, Joy of that candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-11-25 18:20 +0000
                          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-23 09:10 +0000
                            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-11-23 19:16 +0000
                              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-11-23 20:50 +0000
                      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-11-23 01:28 -0500
                  Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-22 20:55 +0000
        Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-20 21:47 +0000
          Re: Joy of this, Joy of that John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-11-20 14:09 -0800
            Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-20 23:39 +0000
              Re: Joy of this, Joy of that vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-11-21 01:27 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-11-21 02:16 +0000
                Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-21 04:31 +0000
      Re: Joy of this, Joy of that rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-11-20 18:53 +0000

Page 13 of 43 — ← Prev page 1 … 11 12 [13] 14 15 … 43  Next page →


#61317

FromPancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me>
Date2024-11-24 21:19 +0000
Message-ID<vi059n$2cuig$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61292
On 11/24/24 00:31, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 23:48:59 +0000, Pancho wrote:
> 
>> To be honest, I don't have an idea what classes not being the
>> implementers of instance behaviour means. Where is instance behaviour
>> implemented?
> 
>  From further up: “A behavior is the set of methods used by an object to
> respond to messages”. Since a class itself has no such “behavior”, it
> doesn’t need to be an instance of anything, unlike Python.
> 

What?, Classes do have methods, e.g. they should handle a "new" message 
to create a new instance object of that class.

In my previous post I didn't understand the meaning of implementation. 
Informally I think of implementation as my code, my definition of a 
function, as opposed to declaration. For instance I might say  a class 
implements an interface. However I think the article you cited was using 
the word implementation to mean compiler. i.e. implementation of the 
Smalltalk language.

 From my perspective this is irrelevant, because my understanding of 
Smalltalk was conceptual. The Smalltalk-80 Bluebook spoke of classes as 
normal objects which had methods, responded to messages. The class which 
created instance objects of type class was a metaclass.

The fact that a compiler/interpreter might handle (implementation 
detail) all class behaviour, as it does in C++, doesn't matter. It is 
helpful to think of classes as objects in their own right.

The problem is that the OO model for C++ is more complex. It is easy to 
not be able to see the wood for the tress. That is why I was lucky to 
have the Smalltalk conceptual model before being introduced to C++,

>>>> I would say C++ static methods and static variables are a hack.
>>>
>>> They are there to provide access to the innards of a private/protected
>>> class,
>>
>> No, C++ static means class method or class variable.
> 
> There are no “class methods” or “class variables” as such in C++: in C
> terms, they have “static linkage”. The “class” part is just a visibility
> restriction.
> 

static has many usages in C++. You seem to be confusing the C definition 
of a static variable with internal linkage, with the idea of a C++ class 
static member variable or method.


>>>> Just as value types are a hack in C#. Things that are sensible for
>>>> performance reasons, but that add complexity.
>>>
>>> Presumably, like Java, these mechanisms are there to avoid the need for
>>> the services of the full language compiler at runtime.
>>>
>> No they are there for performance, because you don't want to have to do
>> a malloc and instance initialisation for every number you use.
> 
> Ah, like the distinction between “primitive types” and “reference types”
> in Java.
> 

Possibly. Reference types are like pointers. Value types can live only 
on the stack.

> Python manages to avoid this arbitrary separation: “int”, “float”, “str”,
> “dict” etc are builtin types, and they are classes almost exactly like
> classes you define yourself; and in particular you can subclass them.
> 

In practice I didn't care. Generics solved the main problem of using 
value types in container classes, without having to box them.

>>> Python also does multiple inheritance. And it does it quite nicely,
>>> benefiting from lessons learned in earlier attempts at “linearization”
>>> (coming up with a consistent and minimally-surprising method resolution
>>> order across all the base classes).
>>
>> Yeah, we discussed this in the past. I'm totally unconvinced of the
>> desirability of complex multiple inheritance linearization.
> 
> It is useful, for example, for creating enumerations of fixed instances of
> some particular base class. You inherit from both your particular base
> class as well as the generic “enum.Enum” base class, to get suitable
> properties of both.
> 

Like an interface, IEnumerable (Chsarp), Iterable(Java)? or are you back 
to some special use for Enums.

>> I'm actually quite unconvinced by Python.
> 
> Python manages to provide a small, powerful language core that includes
> features that, for example, Java and C♯ had to leave out: lexical binding,
> functions and classes as first-class objects, operator overloads,
> arbitrary-precision integers, list comprehensions, dictionary and set
> expressions, descriptors, metaclasses ... this then allows for library
> modules to build on this core to provide powerful facilities in the form
> of “domain-specific (sub)languages” (DSLs) that are specialized to
> particular problem areas.
> 

Python is very pretty, the problem is that I tried to write some 
programs using it and the libraries were buggy. With CSharp and Java the 
standardish libraries seem more reliable.

> For example, you don’t need “generics” or “templates”, à la Java/C++ etc,
> because you can define a “class factory” function that constructs new
> classes at runtime.

Yeah, I find not having explicit types very difficult to handle. Maybe 
that is prejudice, maybe not.

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#61320

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2024-11-24 22:36 +0000
Message-ID<vi09pf$2dnuv$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61317
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 21:19:51 +0000, Pancho wrote:

> On 11/24/24 00:31, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 23:48:59 +0000, Pancho wrote:
>> 
>>> To be honest, I don't have an idea what classes not being the
>>> implementers of instance behaviour means. Where is instance behaviour
>>> implemented?
>> 
>> From further up: “A behavior is the set of methods used by an object
>> to respond to messages”. Since a class itself has no such “behavior”,
>> it doesn’t need to be an instance of anything, unlike Python.
>> 
> What?, Classes do have methods, e.g. they should handle a "new" message
> to create a new instance object of that class.

Looking again at that draft spec, “new” is handled as a special case.
If you look at the syntax for a class definition, the initializer
(section 3.4.3) is not defined as a method that handles a message
named “new”, it is just an unnamed block.

This is quite different from Python, where “__new__” is a classmethod,
and you can customize class-instantiation behaviour by defining a
custom method by that name.

This on top of the extra possibilities afforded by metaclasses.
Metaclasses are classes (and hence objects) in their own right, and
have their own method/member definitions.

> The fact that a compiler/interpreter might handle (implementation
> detail) all class behaviour, as it does in C++, doesn't matter. It is
> helpful to think of classes as objects in their own right.

Not really. Consider C++, where templates are handled in a separate
language that only exists at compile time, separate from the regular
language code that executes at run time.

In Python, there is no separate language for generics, since classes
(and functions) are objects, and all object construction happens at
run time.

(Code is generated at compile time, of course; but an object consists
of data as well as a pointer to shared code, and the data is
constructed at run time.)

>>> Yeah, we discussed this in the past. I'm totally unconvinced of the
>>> desirability of complex multiple inheritance linearization.
>> 
>> It is useful, for example, for creating enumerations of fixed instances
>> of some particular base class. You inherit from both your particular
>> base class as well as the generic “enum.Enum” base class, to get
>> suitable properties of both.
>> 
> Like an interface, IEnumerable (Chsarp), Iterable(Java)? or are you back
> to some special use for Enums.

Here’s one example, a decoder for MagicaVoxel files I was playing with
a while back. An enumeration for the available material properties:

    class MATT_PROPS(enum.IntEnum) :
        PLASTIC = 0
        ROUGHNESS = 1
        SPECULAR = 2
        IOR = 3
        ATTEN = 4
        POWER = 5
        GLOW = 6
        ISTOTALPOWER = 7

        @property
        def has_value(self) :
            return \
                self != type(self).ISTOTALPOWER
        #end has_value

    #end MATT_PROPS

used in decoding and extraction of same:

    ...if chunk.id == b"MATT" :
        chunk.assert_no_children()
        if len(chunk.content) < 16 :
            raise Failure("MATT chunk initial too short")
        #end if
        matt_id, matt_type, matt_weight, prop_mask = struct.unpack("<IIfI", chunk.content[:16])
        props_present = set(celf.MATT_PROPS(i) for i in range(32) if 1 << i & prop_mask != 0)
        value_props = list(i for i in sorted(props_present) if i.has_value)
        if len(chunk.content) < 16 + len(value_props) * 4 :
            raise Failure("MATT chunk rest too short")
        #end if
        propvalues = struct.unpack("<" + "f" * len(value_props), chunk.content[16:])
        props = dict(zip(value_props, propvalues))
        for i in props_present :
            if not i.has_value :
                props[i] = None
            #end if
        #end for
        self.materials.append \
          (
            celf.Material
              (
                id = matt_id,
                type = celf.MATT_TYPE(matt_type),
                weight = matt_weight,
                props = props
              )
          )
    #end if

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#61298

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2024-11-24 05:01 +0000
Message-ID<lqfq99F2ek8U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#61291
On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 23:48:59 +0000, Pancho wrote:

> I'm actually quite unconvinced by Python.

For many things it provides a convenient level of abstraction if 
performance isn't a major concern. It's not so much the language itself as 
that the language has become very popular and the range of modules has 
greatly expanded. 

For example, the Esri Python API makes common GIS manipulations less 
painful than using C++. Similarly if you're into machine learning while 
TensorFlow and PyTorch have C++ bindings almost all tutorials will use 
Python. In data science Python is starting to overtake R and is actually 
faster for some operations. For REST APIs you have flask, django, and 
several other frameworks. 

For embedded work as Arm microprocessors have become the norm and SRAM has 
greatly increased a Python interpreter, either MicroPython or 
CircuitPython can be loaded on the device. Again you can work in C++ and 
get greater speed and control but it comes at a cost. Controlling a servo 
with PWM is easy in Python. Doing it in C++ means you need to determine 
the slice and channel for the GPIO pin, decide what to load into the 
counter to get the desired frequency from the 125 MHz clock,determine if 
you need to use the divider for lower frequencies, and make other 
decisions. 

Using Python means you get uniformity across many disciplines and it's 
good enough for most things.  It could have been Perl if it hadn't gotten 
stuck in the tar pits, or Ruby, or Go but from whatever twist of fate 
occurred it was Python.

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#61319

FromPancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me>
Date2024-11-24 21:29 +0000
Message-ID<vi05r1$2d9k0$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61298
On 11/24/24 05:01, rbowman wrote:

> Using Python means you get uniformity across many disciplines and it's
> good enough for most things.  It could have been Perl if it hadn't gotten
> stuck in the tar pits, or Ruby, or Go but from whatever twist of fate
> occurred it was Python.

My niece worked on Python at Twitter. She wasn't complimentary about it 
either. She then moved onto Go. But that was doing big web-server stuff. 
Large scale Docker setups, maybe Kubernetes.

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#61321

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2024-11-24 22:37 +0000
Message-ID<vi09r5$2dnuv$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61319
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 21:29:05 +0000, Pancho wrote:

> My niece worked on Python at Twitter. She wasn't complimentary about it 
> either.

What was her previous experience? Not (splutter) PHP, by any chance?

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#61342

FromPancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me>
Date2024-11-25 11:48 +0000
Message-ID<vi1o6p$2odj8$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61321
On 11/24/24 22:37, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 21:29:05 +0000, Pancho wrote:
> 
>> My niece worked on Python at Twitter. She wasn't complimentary about it
>> either.
> 
> What was her previous experience? Not (splutter) PHP, by any chance?

No, she wasn't originally employed as a programmer. Python was her first 
language.

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#61351

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2024-11-25 21:47 +0000
Message-ID<vi2r8u$318ah$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61342
On Mon, 25 Nov 2024 11:48:41 +0000, Pancho wrote:

> On 11/24/24 22:37, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 21:29:05 +0000, Pancho wrote:
>> 
>>> My niece worked on Python at Twitter. She wasn't complimentary about
>>> it either.
>> 
>> What was her previous experience? Not (splutter) PHP, by any chance?
> 
> No, she wasn't originally employed as a programmer. Python was her first
> language.

I wonder what her standard of comparison was, then ...

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#61324

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2024-11-25 01:43 +0000
Message-ID<lqi31mFdu06U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#61319
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 21:29:05 +0000, Pancho wrote:

> On 11/24/24 05:01, rbowman wrote:
> 
>> Using Python means you get uniformity across many disciplines and it's
>> good enough for most things.  It could have been Perl if it hadn't
>> gotten stuck in the tar pits, or Ruby, or Go but from whatever twist of
>> fate occurred it was Python.
> 
> My niece worked on Python at Twitter. She wasn't complimentary about it
> either. She then moved onto Go. But that was doing big web-server stuff.
> Large scale Docker setups, maybe Kubernetes.

Horses for courses. I tasked a new hire with developing an interface to 
Spidertracks.

https://www.spidertracks.com/

I gave him the requirements but didn't specify a language so he did it 
with Go. No big deal other than having to set up a Go environment on the 
build machine. Go is what you would expect from three C programmers who 
hate C++ and I mean that it a good way. Not sure why they put the 
parameter type after the parameter but I can live with that. It's hanging 
in there:

https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/

for whatever worth the index has.  

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#61338

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-11-25 10:53 +0100
Message-ID<3a520e79-653f-cba2-0f6d-586125a63d87@example.net>
In reply to#61324

On Mon, 25 Nov 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 21:29:05 +0000, Pancho wrote:
>
>> On 11/24/24 05:01, rbowman wrote:
>>
>>> Using Python means you get uniformity across many disciplines and it's
>>> good enough for most things.  It could have been Perl if it hadn't
>>> gotten stuck in the tar pits, or Ruby, or Go but from whatever twist of
>>> fate occurred it was Python.
>>
>> My niece worked on Python at Twitter. She wasn't complimentary about it
>> either. She then moved onto Go. But that was doing big web-server stuff.
>> Large scale Docker setups, maybe Kubernetes.
>
> Horses for courses. I tasked a new hire with developing an interface to
> Spidertracks.
>
> https://www.spidertracks.com/
>
> I gave him the requirements but didn't specify a language so he did it
> with Go. No big deal other than having to set up a Go environment on the
> build machine. Go is what you would expect from three C programmers who
> hate C++ and I mean that it a good way. Not sure why they put the
> parameter type after the parameter but I can live with that. It's hanging
> in there:
>
> https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/
>
> for whatever worth the index has.

I tried a bit of go, and setting up the environment as an amateur was dead 
simple.

Is this also the case for professionals?

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#61346

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2024-11-25 19:42 +0000
Message-ID<lqk28kFnkl9U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#61338
On Mon, 25 Nov 2024 10:53:43 +0100, D wrote:

> I tried a bit of go, and setting up the environment as an amateur was
> dead simple.
> 
> Is this also the case for professionals?

Sure. Compared to setting up for the Java application it was a walk in the 
park. Part of it was brought on by ourselves but getting the Java app 
built and packaged was convoluted.

I don't know how well the Go app would have worked out in the long term, 
including maintenance after the original programmer left. It never saw the 
light of day. That happens sometimes when the client decides to take 
another path. 

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#61354

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-11-25 23:21 +0100
Message-ID<53c24513-e58c-1570-64b7-c01e77d8c385@example.net>
In reply to#61346

On Mon, 25 Nov 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Nov 2024 10:53:43 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> I tried a bit of go, and setting up the environment as an amateur was
>> dead simple.
>>
>> Is this also the case for professionals?
>
> Sure. Compared to setting up for the Java application it was a walk in the
> park. Part of it was brought on by ourselves but getting the Java app
> built and packaged was convoluted.
>
> I don't know how well the Go app would have worked out in the long term,
> including maintenance after the original programmer left. It never saw the
> light of day. That happens sometimes when the client decides to take
> another path.
>

This is the truth!

One of my customers has an in house developed, huge, java program. They 
have been developing it, based on a ph.d. thesis for the last 10 years, 
and they also tried to shun libraries but have written a lot of 
functionality from scratch.

I almost started to work there 7 years ago, but that would have been too 
early. It is absolutely fascinating how much they achieved in the past 7 
years and how much their program has matured.

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#61355

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2024-11-25 23:37 +0000
Message-ID<lqkg1vFpp09U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#61354
On Mon, 25 Nov 2024 23:21:21 +0100, D wrote:

> One of my customers has an in house developed, huge, java program. They
> have been developing it, based on a ph.d. thesis for the last 10 years,
> and they also tried to shun libraries but have written a lot of
> functionality from scratch.
> 
> I almost started to work there 7 years ago, but that would have been too
> early. It is absolutely fascinating how much they achieved in the past 7
> years and how much their program has matured.

Those things tend to grow. There is a small town that is handled by the 
county sheriffs department but it's about 50 miles from the dispatch 
station. The original Java app allowed the substation to have some idea 
what was going on in town, but there was no interaction. It was simple to 
set up and to update.  Over the years it grew into a fully functional 
interface with parts being reused to build an Android app. 

I did a few minor enhancements over the years for GIS related 
functionality with great care since I am not a competent Java programmer. 
I was interested in Java in the late '90s. In my edition of 'Java in a 
Nutshell' it still fit in a nutshell rather than a whole damn walnut tree.

My first disillusionment came when Swing was added on top of AWT. "your 
app runs like a herniated sloth? You need a bigger, faster machine!"

I have the media for Visual J++. It showed promise before it was 
kneecapped by Sun. imho C# is Java done right.

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#61371

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-11-26 10:09 +0100
Message-ID<e3140b16-f558-e9fe-6106-4cfc6f25a6f9@example.net>
In reply to#61355

On Tue, 25 Nov 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Nov 2024 23:21:21 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> One of my customers has an in house developed, huge, java program. They
>> have been developing it, based on a ph.d. thesis for the last 10 years,
>> and they also tried to shun libraries but have written a lot of
>> functionality from scratch.
>>
>> I almost started to work there 7 years ago, but that would have been too
>> early. It is absolutely fascinating how much they achieved in the past 7
>> years and how much their program has matured.
>
> Those things tend to grow. There is a small town that is handled by the
> county sheriffs department but it's about 50 miles from the dispatch
> station. The original Java app allowed the substation to have some idea
> what was going on in town, but there was no interaction. It was simple to
> set up and to update.  Over the years it grew into a fully functional
> interface with parts being reused to build an Android app.
>
> I did a few minor enhancements over the years for GIS related
> functionality with great care since I am not a competent Java programmer.
> I was interested in Java in the late '90s. In my edition of 'Java in a
> Nutshell' it still fit in a nutshell rather than a whole damn walnut tree.
>
> My first disillusionment came when Swing was added on top of AWT. "your
> app runs like a herniated sloth? You need a bigger, faster machine!"
>
> I have the media for Visual J++. It showed promise before it was
> kneecapped by Sun. imho C# is Java done right.
>

Yes, I asked the CTO if he would have chosen Java today, and he said no. 
But now they have 10 years of work in java, so there is little point to 
switch to something else, since Java works well for them.

I imagine that the fact that they keep external library dependencies to a 
minimum makes it easier for them, than if they had a lot of dependencies 
on third party libraries.

I wonder if rust would be a good option today? The software is purely 
backend software. All the GUI parts are just html + some dynamic stuff.

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#61381

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2024-11-26 19:17 +0000
Message-ID<lqml61F5lsrU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#61371
On Tue, 26 Nov 2024 10:09:37 +0100, D wrote:

> I imagine that the fact that they keep external library dependencies to
> a minimum makes it easier for them, than if they had a lot of
> dependencies on third party libraries.

That helps. We did an Angular app and package.json wound up with over 80 
dependencies. Downloading them all was painful and sometimes introduced 
problems. One example was using Protobuf 2.0. Protobuf 3.0 was not 
backward compatible. 

We got good at the semantics of package-lock when it became clear that not 
everyone played by the rules of not breaking stuff in minor versions.

I'd done a web map using node for the backend. It had 8 dependencies, all 
of which were stable. Increase that by a factor of 10 and it gets chewy.


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#61384

FromD <nospam@example.net>
Date2024-11-26 21:59 +0100
Message-ID<5923afce-a8e6-3b37-ca3e-5045f9e5240f@example.net>
In reply to#61381

On Tue, 26 Nov 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Nov 2024 10:09:37 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> I imagine that the fact that they keep external library dependencies to
>> a minimum makes it easier for them, than if they had a lot of
>> dependencies on third party libraries.
>
> That helps. We did an Angular app and package.json wound up with over 80
> dependencies. Downloading them all was painful and sometimes introduced
> problems. One example was using Protobuf 2.0. Protobuf 3.0 was not
> backward compatible.
>
> We got good at the semantics of package-lock when it became clear that not
> everyone played by the rules of not breaking stuff in minor versions.
>
> I'd done a web map using node for the backend. It had 8 dependencies, all
> of which were stable. Increase that by a factor of 10 and it gets chewy.
>

Shudder!

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#61591

FromJohn Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Date2024-12-02 15:21 -0800
Message-ID<20241202152129.0000354a@gmail.com>
In reply to#61355
On 25 Nov 2024 23:37:36 GMT
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> I have the media for Visual J++. It showed promise before it was 
> kneecapped by Sun. imho C# is Java done right.

The downside to C# is that being MS's baby, as far as I've ever seen it
pretty much locks you into a Windows environment. Yes, technically Mono
is A Thing That Exists, but it's about as pleasant as the disease with
which it aptly shares a name. Java, whatever else you want to say about
it, is equally mediocre on any platform.

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#61594

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2024-12-02 23:28 +0000
Message-ID<vilfr5$3kicc$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61591
On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 15:21:29 -0800, John Ames wrote:

> Java, whatever else you want to say about it, is equally mediocre on any
> platform.

Not to mention it is the Intellectual Property of a notoriously litigious 
company, desperate to monetize it in any way it can.

Which is why Google is promoting Kotlin, now.

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#61599

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2024-12-03 03:46 +0000
Message-ID<lr7d96FqfgtU3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#61591
On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 15:21:29 -0800, John Ames wrote:

> The downside to C# is that being MS's baby, as far as I've ever seen it
> pretty much locks you into a Windows environment. Yes, technically Mono
> is A Thing That Exists, but it's about as pleasant as the disease with
> which it aptly shares a name. Java, whatever else you want to say about
> it, is equally mediocre on any platform.

Yes and no. I have the dotnet SDK on my Fedora machine and an app that 
given an artist or track title queries the itunes database and returns 
either other tracks by the artist or covers of the title by various 
artists. The catch is it's command line. So far, there hasn't been a 
successful GUI system although there have been other attempts than Mnoo.

Even on Windows  'dotnet build --runtime linux-x64' will build a package 
that executes on Linux in a separate subdirectory otherwise it builds for 
the current OS/architecture. 

Long story which Microsoft managed to obduscate with their versioning 
but .NET Core was a cross platform project while .NET Framework was 
Windows. .NET Core's last version was 3.1 which overlapped with .NET 
Framework 4.8.  In 2020 they dropped the 'Core' so .NET 5.0 and above are 
the descendants of .NET Core 3.1, not Framework.  Confused?

ASP.NET became ASP.NET Core, although now it's usually just called 
ASP.NET.

https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/learn/aspnet/what-is-aspnet

And there you have the culmination of the plan, cross platform backends in 
C#. I suppose if you're a masochist you could use F# or VB. It fits in 
with WSL. The bet is on the cloud and Linux instances are cheaper than 
Windows Server instances, even on Azure. 

.NET MAUI supposedly targets Android, macOS, iOS, and Windows and is a 
follow on to Xamarin which followed Mono. The noticeable omission is 
Linux. I'm not sure what the long term business plan is but the one thing 
MS doesn't seem to be interested in is building desktop apps for Linux. 

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#61322

From"186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net>
Date2024-11-24 19:35 -0500
Message-ID<qaWcnZSF3q3zW976nZ2dnZfqn_WdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to#61298
On 11/24/24 12:01 AM, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 23:48:59 +0000, Pancho wrote:
> 
>> I'm actually quite unconvinced by Python.
> 
> For many things it provides a convenient level of abstraction if
> performance isn't a major concern. It's not so much the language itself as
> that the language has become very popular and the range of modules has
> greatly expanded.
> 
> For example, the Esri Python API makes common GIS manipulations less
> painful than using C++. Similarly if you're into machine learning while
> TensorFlow and PyTorch have C++ bindings almost all tutorials will use
> Python. In data science Python is starting to overtake R and is actually
> faster for some operations. For REST APIs you have flask, django, and
> several other frameworks.
> 
> For embedded work as Arm microprocessors have become the norm and SRAM has
> greatly increased a Python interpreter, either MicroPython or
> CircuitPython can be loaded on the device. Again you can work in C++ and
> get greater speed and control but it comes at a cost. Controlling a servo
> with PWM is easy in Python. Doing it in C++ means you need to determine
> the slice and channel for the GPIO pin, decide what to load into the
> counter to get the desired frequency from the 125 MHz clock,determine if
> you need to use the divider for lower frequencies, and make other
> decisions.
> 
> Using Python means you get uniformity across many disciplines and it's
> good enough for most things.  It could have been Perl if it hadn't gotten
> stuck in the tar pits, or Ruby, or Go but from whatever twist of fate
> occurred it was Python.

   For almost anything, it's good enough - or more than
   good enough. The large number of libs has left little
   beyond its (relatively easy) reach. It's also READABLE,
   nothing too mysterious about the syntax or defining/using
   vars and such.

   Do kinda pref "{ }" or "begin end" over the dangling
   depth thing ... get six or eight levels into something
   and it's a total bitch to spot what's inside what
   without using comments.

   However it's NOT as fast as the true compiled langs.
   Yea, yea, there's Python compilers - turn it into 'C' -
   but with sometimes difficult barriers and the final exe
   tends to be pretty fat - VERY VERY fat if you get past
   version issues by encapsulating all the needed libs
   inside the exe.

   In any case, it's become the "new BASIC" for good reasons
   and I don't see that being changed anytime soon. It's
   in *everything* now from microcontrollers on up.

   I never learned it until M$ started sneaking it into
   their OS junk. "What's a .py ???". The good side of
   that is that it was right near the v2 -> v3 transition
   and I decided to learn the 'new and improved'.

   Anyway, I do full apps and utils in Python and almost
   always use it to proto stuff before re-writing in 'C'
   or Pascal.

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#61323

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2024-11-25 00:36 +0000
Message-ID<vi0gqv$2f1do$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61322
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 19:35:57 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> Do kinda pref "{ }" or "begin end" over the dangling depth thing ...
> get six or eight levels into something and it's a total bitch to spot
> what's inside what without using comments.

So use the comments. That’s what I do.

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