Re: Gparted questions

Subject	Re: Gparted questions
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.misc
References	(1 earlier) <rpqq6C.4DD@yahoo.com> <MUedna8mufRp3X7-nZ2dnZfqnPidnZ2d@earthlink.com> <ts1qr4$hp25$1@dont-email.me> <W6OcndZMj9xsSXj-nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@earthlink.com> <ts5j4e$12cs6$1@dont-email.me>
From	"26C.Z968" <26C.Z968@noaada.net>
Date	2023-02-11 01:50 -0500
Message-ID	<ya6dnWsTnf9Pp3r-nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@earthlink.com> (permalink)

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On 2/10/23 9:08 AM, Rich wrote:
> 26C.Z968 <26C.Z968@noaada.net> wrote:
>>    There was considerable debate at IBM over whether to use the M68000
>>    series or the Intel chips back in the day.  They SHOULD have gone
>>    with Motorola - but there were some reasons for the 8088.  First of
>>    all it needed less wiring.  Secondly its instruction set was
>>    similar enough to the Z80's so it was easy to port CP/M.  That was
>>    their backwards-compatibility promise ...  at the time BIZ=CP/M and
>>    IBM was BIZ.
> 
> The reasoning given not long (as in early 'history' articles) after the
> release of the IBM PC indicated a much simpler reasoning.
> 
> Intel had an official licensed second source supplier for 808x chips
> (that second source being AMD) and Motorola was, at least at the time
> IBM's PC group was picking a CPU, single source (with a promise to have
> a second source within X time, like a year or something).
> 
> And IBM's corporate policy was to always have two sources for all
> critical components.

   The 8088 was just cheaper and "safer" in several respects,
   so that's what they went with. CP/M compatibility WAS a
   significant issue as well. CP/M-68k didn't come out for
   another year or two (Radio Shack DID have a dual-board
   computer that'd run CP/M-68k, once it arrived).

> So while 'less wiring' and 'could run CP/M if need be' may have figured
> into the choice, if these history articles were correct, the actual
> reason was much simpler.

   BIG company, LOTS of issues - real or imagined - LOTS
   of meetings and meetings about meetings about .....

   A terrible thing they DIDN'T go with the 68 series
   though, it WAS a much better chip - which Apple soon
   exploited. By now we'd have the 680990 chip and Intel
   would still be making accessory hardware.

> Wikipedia as of today
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM-PC#Design_process) cites that the
> 68000 was not production ready at the time:
> 
>      Several CPUs were considered, including the Texas Instruments
>      TMS9900, Motorola 68000 and Intel 8088.  The 68000 was considered
>      the best choice, but was not production-ready like the others.  The
>      IBM 801 RISC processor was also considered, since it was
>      considerably more powerful than the other options, but rejected due
>      to the design constraint to use off-the-shelf parts.
> 
>      IBM chose the 8088 over the similar but superior 8086 because Intel
>      offered a better price for the former and could provide more
>      units,[19] and the 8088's 8-bit bus reduced the cost of the rest of
>      the computer.  The 8088 had the advantage that IBM already had
>      familiarity with the 8085 from designing the IBM System/23
>      Datamaster.  The 62-pin expansion bus slots were also designed to
>      be similar to the Datamaster slots, and its keyboard design and
>      layout became the Model F keyboard shipped with the PC, but
>      otherwise the PC design differed in many ways.
> 

   I have a little experience with the TMS-9000 series. AT THE
   TIME it was a 'clever' chip - hardware-support for multi-user
   environments. However it was big and expensive and TI was
   super-anal - a reason the TI Home Computer died so soon. Also
   the 9900's only easily supported 64kb "workspaces" for users
   apps which would have been too limiting given the way the
   future was developing.

   I have no experience with the IBM-801 so I can't say much.
   Their PowerPC chip probably evolved from it and was kinda
   successful (most Linux's still have a PPC version).

   In any case, a lot of factors went into the Final Decision.

   In the latter 80s there were SAGE computers - intended for
   the same niche as the IBM-PCs and LOOKED almost exactly
   like them. They used the 68000 series though. Alas they,
   like the Amiga's, used a proprietary OS that just was
   not THAT much better and ultimately could not displace
   MS/IBM or MAC. There were also production issues, one
   developer BOLTED a board to his desk so they couldn't
   sneak in and steal it for retail :-) SAGE still has a
   sort of cult following, they WERE good computers. Alas
   I could never afford, or likely GET, one.

   VAST number of good chips/systems have come - and DIED -
   since the late 70s. Some maybe WERE the Better Idea, but
   IBM/Apple just overwhelmed them. There was SOME old chip
   that had a few ultra-high-speed serial links to other
   chips so you could implement almost unlimited multi-
   processor/multi-processing ... just scale up forever.
   Can't remember the name now - but they'd have been a
   different, perhaps advantageous, way to approach the
   issue.

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