Re: Alternative to Optical Storage????

From	Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc, alt.os.linux
Subject	Re: Alternative to Optical Storage????
Date	2024-09-30 19:34 -0400
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<vdfcip$2e105$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(4 earlier) <vdas1u$1l9vg$1@dont-email.me> <vdb6il$1mt37$1@dont-email.me> <vdcd0m$1se5e$1@dont-email.me> <vdcg84$1srul$1@dont-email.me> <vde1s1$268qv$19@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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On Mon, 9/30/2024 7:25 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> No one knows till they power up a 40 year old drive whether or not the data is either still there, or is recoverable.
>

There are properties studied in isolation, but there
does not seem to be that much research interest in the
archival properties of hard drives.

Part of the reason, is the physical construction is always
changing, and each era can have a different failure mechanism.

The chances of the drive making it to 70 years and not having
enough magnetic signal, are pretty limited. You are just as
likely, to suffer some other kind of failure. And the Helium drives,
they remove all the uncertainty about 70 years as a target figure.
The glass platters and the loss of helium, say hi. The platters
had to be made thinner, to put ten platters in an inch thick drive.

As home users, our usage of hard drives for backup, is purely
coincidental. The hard drive companies do not place a premium on
that behavior or application. The drive has as priority,
nearline storage and "as much capacity as you can manage". That's
why the Helium drives are a poor match for what a home user
might wish to achieve. A home user, uses Flash, because Microsoft
told them to. They back up their flash (whether eMMC, SSD, NVMe),
with a hard drive. But then it depends on what kind of hard drive
they bought, whether they are "well covered". The 6TB air breathers
are still a good choice for archival storage. The 24TB Helium drives
on the other hand, they're not a good match for archival store.

This is an archival drive. 20 years from now, this will work.
"Do Not Cover Any Drive Holes" means it is an air breather (no helium).
There could be 3 to 6 platters (they stopped reporting platters in
the data sheet, a long time ago, as well as honestly reporting
CMR versus PMR). 4 platters is a good number, but they could
do it with 3 platters now.

"WD Black 6TB"

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Hh8AAOSw2~VlRLQm/s-l1600.jpg

This is not an archival drive. The outer lid is welded on.
It does not unscrew at the Data Recovery lab. Your data is
trapped in there, and it ain't comin back.

"WD Gold 24TB"

https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/nJ59TSmXcVxrM35UVnYJzF-1200-80.jpg.webp

One of the drive companies, put a pressure sensor in SMART, but
it's not documented, so we can't "plot helium pressure versus year" for fun.
The other company didn't put anything in that slot. I have not seen
any info, on the number of BARs of gas pressure in there. It is whatever
amount of gas that is needed, to make the heads "fly". And a drive like
that, is likely to have the fly sensor (DSP measures head current, to
compute flying height on a write). A WD Blue 1TB drive, has sweet nothing,
in terms of technical content, and it does not sense flying height.
It doesn't need to. It doesn't have piezo positioners right at the head.
If you put eight WD Blue 1TB in a drive rack, the vibration from all
the drives, would prevent them from performing properly. One WD Blue 1TB
by itself should be fine.

I had a WD Blue and the farking thing was on one of the six axis
allowed for drives, but the drive is NOT happy, if half way through
its life, you change the orientation. Once you pick to run it horizontal,
keep running it horizontal. Don't flip it upside down, if you can
avoid it. There was a time, when horizontal was the only axis allowed.
But that changed at some point, to a six axis specification (horizontal
right side up, horizontal upside down, being two of them).

Paul

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Alternative to Optical Storage???? Nux Vomica <nv@linux.rocks> - 2024-09-27 16:37 +0000
  Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-09-27 12:40 -0400
    Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Ralf Schneider <schneiderr@freenet.de> - 2024-09-27 17:33 +0000
      Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-09-27 15:05 -0400
      Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> - 2024-09-27 21:06 +0000
      Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-09-27 21:32 -0400
        Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Nux Vomica <nv@linux.rocks> - 2024-09-28 10:56 +0000
        Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-29 06:28 +0000
          Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-09-29 05:27 -0400
            Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2024-09-29 13:23 -0700
              Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-09-29 17:18 -0400
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-30 01:34 -0400
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-30 12:29 +0100
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-30 12:25 +0100
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? jjb <jjb@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-30 16:41 +0200
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-01 01:29 -0400
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2024-10-02 03:28 +0000
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-02 21:50 -0400
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-10-03 06:40 +0200
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-10-03 09:58 -0400
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-10-04 04:46 +0200
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-10-04 02:19 -0400
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-10-04 09:56 +0000
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-04 12:45 +0100
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-10-05 06:46 +0200
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-10-04 11:16 -0400
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-10-04 08:34 -0400
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-10-04 11:29 -0400
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-10-05 06:57 +0200
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-10-05 06:50 +0200
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-10-05 00:57 -0400
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-10-05 01:23 -0400
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> - 2024-10-05 07:13 +0000
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-10-05 03:33 -0400
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> - 2024-10-05 08:42 +0000
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-09-30 19:34 -0400
              Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-30 11:57 +0100
            Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 01:49 +0000
    Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-10-01 07:04 +0200
      Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-10-01 01:08 -0400
      Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-10-01 03:10 -0400
        Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-03 01:47 -0400
          Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-03 15:34 +0000
          Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-10-03 17:13 +0000
            Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-03 23:31 -0400
              Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-10-04 02:12 -0400
              Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-10-05 07:01 +0200
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-10-05 07:41 -0400
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-10-05 21:03 +0000
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-10-05 20:52 +0000
          Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Nux Vomica <nv@linux.rocks> - 2024-10-03 19:13 +0000
            Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-04 00:35 -0400
        Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-03 02:28 -0400
          Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-10-03 03:10 -0400
            Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-04 01:04 -0400
  Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-09-27 17:36 +0000
    Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Shadow <Sh@dow.br> - 2024-09-27 15:39 -0300
      Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? jjb <jjb@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-27 21:54 +0200
        Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-27 20:38 +0000
    Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Nux Vomica <nv@linux.rocks> - 2024-09-27 20:26 +0000
      Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-09-28 07:54 +1000
        Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-09-28 01:49 +0000
      Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2024-09-28 15:33 -0700
        Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-09-28 23:14 +0000
          Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2024-09-29 13:25 -0700
            Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-09-30 00:15 +0000
              Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-09-30 19:40 +0000
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-10-01 05:35 +0000
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2024-10-02 19:14 -0700
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-10-04 05:05 +0000
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-10-08 21:40 +0000
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-10-08 23:22 +0000
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-10-03 16:00 +0000
            Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-09-30 00:15 +0000
    Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2024-10-01 10:33 +0000
  Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Nux Vomica <nv@linux.rocks> - 2024-09-28 10:46 +0000
  Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Nux Vomica <nv@linux.rocks> - 2024-09-28 11:04 +0000
    Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Nux Vomica <nv@linux.rocks> - 2024-09-28 13:24 +0000
  Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-29 00:43 -0400
    Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-09-29 07:21 +0000
      Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-30 00:09 -0400

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