Groups | Search | Server Info | Login | Register

Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #58978

Re: Alternative to Optical Storage????

Subject Re: Alternative to Optical Storage????
Newsgroups comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc, alt.os.linux
References <pan$c6999$ff62655a$6baa28da$29b62529@linux.rocks> <usndfjpf9lljrk7ejilvj0ohb0mv5du6tl@4ax.com> <al0nfj9nfohkju0dnabghk1cjvek5hbr87@4ax.com> <vdg79h$2l0ka$1@dont-email.me>
From "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net>
Organization wokiesux
Date 2024-10-03 01:47 -0400
Message-ID <3NmdnUtfTvJIsmP7nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@earthlink.com> (permalink)

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

Show all headers | View raw

On 10/1/24 3:10 AM, Paul wrote:
> On Tue, 10/1/2024 1:04 AM, Steve Hayes wrote:
>> On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 12:40:57 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Nux Vomica <nv@linux.rocks> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It seems that a lot of users are, irrationally, opposed to the
>>>> use of optical media for long-term archival storage.
>>>>
>>>> What, then, are some alternatives for the general user who does
>>>> not command the BIG $BUCKS necessary for enterprise grade solutions.
>>>>
>>>> Tape?  Not likely.
>>>>
>>>> Note that magnetic (HDD) or IC NAND (SSD) devices are not to be
>>>> considered long-term storage.  Consumer SSDs are especially not
>>>> long term.
>>>>
>>>> Optical media is still by far the best in terms of cost/benefit
>>>> for the general user.
>>>>
>>>> I have hundreds of optical disks that I have produced over the
>>>> past years, all with GNU/Linux, and they will last me until the
>>>> end of my time.
>>>
>>>
>>> Optical disks are good if you want a handheld copy of something, but
>>> external storage or large USB media is what I'd prefer.
>>
>> But "large USB media" could be optical, or magnetic, or something
>> else.
> 
> Presumably something involving the USB Mass Storage standard :-)
> 
> (Fraudulent 16TB flash stick -- well, I only wanted to pay $10 for it)
> 
> https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/dffbc8a8-87c8-4db7-b6e8-d94b3b2f9b8e.dae192be27efdde1869519eda80a1c9f.jpeg
> 
> There were some announcements of 16TB flash drives (2.5"), but
> at least some of those designs, did not make it to stores
> (controller problems, lack of qty of big flash chips). One
> company might be shipping, but the price is about 2X what you
> should be paying.
> 
> No, in fact, flash is not the answer. Unless you want to build
> a huge USB tree of some sort, using Patriot 1TB drives until
> you have enough storage.
> 
> And real flash drives, the 100TB 3.5" ones, cost as much as a car.
> And they tend to work at SATA III rates. Still waiting for a
> reviewer to get one (in its own Brinks truck).
> 
>     Paul
> 


   "Flash" - no matter the size/price - is NOT an
   archival media by any definition.

   The various SSDs/M12/etc aren't much better.

   The tech is the fault - data does NOT persist more
   than a few years.

   HDDs are better - but they ARE mechanical devices
   and also, esp with the high-cap ones, 'bit rot'
   can become an issue. Don't expect to put 'em in
   the safe for 25 years and still expect to get
   data out of them.

   It's a SERIOUS PROBLEM. We make SO much data now,
   SUCH volume, and at least SOME of it IS important
   for both legal and historical reasons - yet there
   are NO really good archival media.

   Optical disks - esp M-Disks - can LAST ... but they
   are LOW-DENSITY by today's defs by a BIG margin.
   It's also not clear if you'd be able to FIND a
   DVD reader device 25 years from now. Even most
   current PCs/laptops don't COME with those anymore.

   I usually rec 'forward replication', keep copying
   yer data to the latest/greatest media. Alas even
   that seems to be running out. The Future is 'cloud',
   but remember Vlad's nasty boyz might evaporate that
   cloud anytime now.

   The Library Of Congress and Smithsonian are FREAKIN'
   at this point. SO much historical data - but they
   can't even find the hardware/drivers to READ the
   often-proprietary media.

   Maybe we were better off with baked-clay tablets.
   THEY have lasted 8000+ years ... kinda 'low density'
   alas, but, on the plus, no 'devices' needed to read
   the data. If you want the barley harvest/tax data
   for Uruk, it CAN be read from the clay tablets  :-)

   (oh ... that data shows that LITTLE has changed
   for 'civs' in 8000 years - including bureaucrats
   and bean-counters)

Back to comp.os.linux.misc | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar

Thread

Alternative to Optical Storage???? Nux Vomica <nv@linux.rocks> - 2024-09-27 16:37 +0000
  Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-09-27 12:40 -0400
    Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Ralf Schneider <schneiderr@freenet.de> - 2024-09-27 17:33 +0000
      Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-09-27 15:05 -0400
      Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> - 2024-09-27 21:06 +0000
      Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-09-27 21:32 -0400
        Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Nux Vomica <nv@linux.rocks> - 2024-09-28 10:56 +0000
        Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-29 06:28 +0000
          Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-09-29 05:27 -0400
            Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2024-09-29 13:23 -0700
              Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-09-29 17:18 -0400
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-30 01:34 -0400
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-30 12:29 +0100
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-30 12:25 +0100
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? jjb <jjb@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-30 16:41 +0200
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-01 01:29 -0400
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2024-10-02 03:28 +0000
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-02 21:50 -0400
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-10-03 06:40 +0200
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-10-03 09:58 -0400
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-10-04 04:46 +0200
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-10-04 02:19 -0400
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-10-04 09:56 +0000
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-04 12:45 +0100
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-10-05 06:46 +0200
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-10-04 11:16 -0400
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-10-04 08:34 -0400
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-10-04 11:29 -0400
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-10-05 06:57 +0200
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-10-05 06:50 +0200
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-10-05 00:57 -0400
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-10-05 01:23 -0400
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> - 2024-10-05 07:13 +0000
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-10-05 03:33 -0400
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? "Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> - 2024-10-05 08:42 +0000
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-09-30 19:34 -0400
              Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-30 11:57 +0100
            Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 01:49 +0000
    Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-10-01 07:04 +0200
      Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-10-01 01:08 -0400
      Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-10-01 03:10 -0400
        Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-03 01:47 -0400
          Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-03 15:34 +0000
          Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-10-03 17:13 +0000
            Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-03 23:31 -0400
              Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-10-04 02:12 -0400
              Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-10-05 07:01 +0200
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-10-05 07:41 -0400
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-10-05 21:03 +0000
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-10-05 20:52 +0000
          Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Nux Vomica <nv@linux.rocks> - 2024-10-03 19:13 +0000
            Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-04 00:35 -0400
        Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-03 02:28 -0400
          Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-10-03 03:10 -0400
            Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-04 01:04 -0400
  Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-09-27 17:36 +0000
    Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Shadow <Sh@dow.br> - 2024-09-27 15:39 -0300
      Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? jjb <jjb@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-27 21:54 +0200
        Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-27 20:38 +0000
    Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Nux Vomica <nv@linux.rocks> - 2024-09-27 20:26 +0000
      Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-09-28 07:54 +1000
        Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-09-28 01:49 +0000
      Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2024-09-28 15:33 -0700
        Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-09-28 23:14 +0000
          Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2024-09-29 13:25 -0700
            Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-09-30 00:15 +0000
              Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-09-30 19:40 +0000
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-10-01 05:35 +0000
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2024-10-02 19:14 -0700
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-10-04 05:05 +0000
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-10-08 21:40 +0000
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-10-08 23:22 +0000
                Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-10-03 16:00 +0000
            Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2024-09-30 00:15 +0000
    Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> - 2024-10-01 10:33 +0000
  Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Nux Vomica <nv@linux.rocks> - 2024-09-28 10:46 +0000
  Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Nux Vomica <nv@linux.rocks> - 2024-09-28 11:04 +0000
    Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? Nux Vomica <nv@linux.rocks> - 2024-09-28 13:24 +0000
  Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-29 00:43 -0400
    Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-09-29 07:21 +0000
      Re: Alternative to Optical Storage???? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-30 00:09 -0400

csiph-web