Re: Wonderful Windows Zaps Banks/Transport/Media after "Update" Yesterday

From	Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.misc
Subject	Re: Wonderful Windows Zaps Banks/Transport/Media after "Update" Yesterday
Date	2024-07-21 09:25 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<v7igmc$pll$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	<LhednausWIoLFwf7nZ2dnZfqnPidnZ2d@earthlink.com> <87h6cl74ix.fsf@tilde.institute> <v7f20n$37e0a$3@dont-email.me> <v7g2bi$3fp58$1@dont-email.me> <v7gv7b$dhs$2@reader1.panix.com>

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On 2024-07-20, Popping Mad wrote:

> On 7/20/24 6:08 AM, Nuno Silva wrote:
>> As far as both are Turing-complete, there's probably not much difference
>> in capabilities for this discussion. Windows does not hold a monopoly in
>> the capability to run code with errors.
>> 
>> (In fact, given that Broadcom has their own wireless linux drivers,
>> possibly with the same quality level as their firmware...)
>
>
> For thirty years people have been saying stupid and meaningless stuff
> like this.  It is garbage.

(Are you dismissing computer science as garbage?)

> The Windows situation... OBVIOUSLY... would never happen in a Linux
> evironment although systemd makes a huge step forward to make it
> possible.

Not only it has reportedly happened already *on Linux systems*, it has
happened also with CrowdStrike, which highlights the obvious: the
problem isn't necessarily the system, but the bad code and the lack of
testing:

https://www.neowin.net/news/crowdstrike-broke-debian-and-rocky-linux-months-ago-but-no-one-noticed/

However, it is true that some systems, including Linux, may offer
something that avoids this risk altogether, see
https://nondeterministic.computer/@mjg59/112816011370924959

But the problem is still CrowdStrike, and they could always have choosen
to ignore this mechanism and continue with the same approach.

> It has nothing to do with turing machines and advanced theoretical
> calculations.

If you choose to ignore computer science, your loss. Turing completeness
does allow an abstraction here: bad code that runs on one Turing machine
can run on another Turing machine. It doesn't matter much if it's
Microsoft or not.

This is certainly one of the tools in the toolbox computer science
provides, and might even help avoiding some heated debates of "my
tool/language is better than yours", which sometimes are much less
rooted in actual technical differences and more in emotion. (There are
differences in features and interfaces that do matter, differences in
kernel design too, of course, but when it comes to the ability of
running GIGO code, that tends to be quite omnipresent.)

> It has to do with the more secure Unix level design for
> Linux based systems and the way decisions are made in Linux development
> and how updates are run and generated.

No, CrowdStrike seems to have intentionally made their own update
handling system. The fact that many Linux distros have decent package
management wouldn't have mattered here.

> Does this make Linux perfect.. No.  But it gives it a shot.  MS makes
> insecure decisions from the ground up for business decisions. We have
> spent a lift time watch MS systems doing things they just should be able
> to do making them rich targets for visues big and small, and malware...
> things like runnng fucking email as an executable binary and autoruning
> DVD software etc etc.  I can't even begin to discuss what it does to the
> browser.
>
>
> So please... put your bullshit away.
>
> THis was inevitable and it is inevitable to happen again.

Yeah, but the Microsoft you blame has had for some years the ability to
save restore points and roll back if needed in Windows NT. And, from
what I've observed, this seems to be invoked with software installation
and possibly Windows updates too.

It might be painful to watch a Windows machine spending quite long to
install an update and then fail and roll back (they *do* need to improve
dependency management in this, because quite often they just don't pull
an update that is a dependency), but, at least as of NT 6.1, it *does*
do that.

I might not like Windows nor Microsoft, but... calling reality
"bullshit"...

-- 
Nuno Silva

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Wonderful Windows Zaps Banks/Transport/Media after "Update" Yesterday "26yh.0712" <26yh.0713@e6t5y.net> - 2024-07-19 11:47 -0400
  Re: Wonderful Windows Zaps Banks/Transport/Media after "Update" Yesterday yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-07-19 16:45 +0042
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              Re: Wonderful Windows Zaps Banks/Transport/Media after "Update" Yesterday "26yh.0712" <26yh.0713@e6t5y.net> - 2024-07-20 19:16 -0400
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                Re: Wonderful Windows Zaps Banks/Transport/Media after "Update" Yesterday "26yh.0712" <26yh.0713@e6t5y.net> - 2024-07-20 19:10 -0400
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      Re: Wonderful Windows Zaps Banks/Transport/Media after "Update" Yesterday Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2024-07-20 11:08 +0100
        Re: Wonderful Windows Zaps Banks/Transport/Media after "Update" Yesterday Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> - 2024-07-20 14:21 -0400
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            Re: Wonderful Windows Zaps Banks/Transport/Media after "Update" Yesterday Popping Mad <rainbow@colition.gov> - 2024-07-21 00:41 -0400
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