Re: uefi malware--threat to all?

From	Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.misc
Subject	Re: uefi malware--threat to all?
Date	2023-03-21 03:09 +0000
Organization	none-at-all
Message-ID	<slrnu1i807.ifo.spamtrap42@one.localnet> (permalink)
References	(13 earlier) <F3qdnVXVWNFfTo75nZ2dnZfqnPqdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <ofrdejxh77.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <tv1kgm$1tqag$10@dont-email.me> <slrnu1d2uv.8us.spamtrap42@one.localnet> <AsOdnRHozaZHMIv5nZ2dnZfqn_ednZ2d@earthlink.com>

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On 2023-03-19, 29V.X746 <29V.X746@noqb1u.net> wrote:
> On 3/19/23 12:13 AM, Robert Riches wrote:
>> On 2023-03-17, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 17/03/2023 10:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have a certain hatred of Adobe.
>>>>
>>>
>>> There are two things that ought never to have been invented, at least
>>> the way they are today.
>>>
>>> One is PostScript, and the other is X-windows.
>>> Both are designed by academics for theoretical perfection and
>>> completeness and both are utterly inaccessible without a shelf of
>>> manuals and 5 years studying them to actually get working.
>>> Remember the Apple Laserwriter that needed a bigger CPU and more RAM
>>> than the  computer that drove it, just to interpret PostScript?
>>> Or X-windows implementations that used up more RAM than most Unix
>>> systems had, in order to run? And was dog slow
>>>
>>> Both work not because of, but *despite* their design.
>>>
>>> ...
>> 
>> I'll give you the benefit of the doubt about PostScript, but the
>> X window system that I used in the latter 1980s on a Sun 386i
>> workstation running SunOS version approximately 4.01 or so with
>> around 8-12MB (yes, MEGAbytes) of RAM seemed fast enough and
>> memory was not a significant issue.  It was responsive enough
>> that a group of us held a regular 5:01pm multiplayer game of
>> xtrek.
>
>
>    I'm gonna agree - it's not THAT horrible and HAS
>    improved over the years.
>
>    And it IS very well documented, including lots of
>    How-To's.
>
>    Wayland MAY demonstrate advantages - but it's still
>    relatively "new" and does not support as much
>    hardware and does not have the volume of docs and
>    How-To's.

I don't know the original source, but it's been said that those
who don't understand Unix (or something similar) will be
condemned to re-implement it--poorly.  That appears to be the
case with Wayland.  IIUC, it's brain-dead in that it follows the
Doze convention that keyboard focus can only transfer by
clicking, not by just moving the mouse--and (worse) a window that
is not the top-most cannot have focus.

There are plenty of cases where it is very important to have
keyboard focus on a window that is not the top-most.  The prime
example is I need to see all of one window that occupies the
upper 80% of the screen while typing into the lower edge of a
window that occupies the lower 80% of the screen.  With X, it's a
breeze to arrange windows to allow typing into a non-top-most
window.  With brain-dead Doze (and IIUC, Wayland), it's entirely
impossible.

(If someone knows that Wayland can keyboard focus on a
non-top-most window and can have focus follow the mouse cursor,
that would be a big relief--being as it appears Wayland will
eventually drive X into the dust bin.)

>    Mr. Natural DOES have a point though about things
>    that are "over-eggheaded" however. "Conceptually
>    perfect" does NOT mean "real-world perfect".
>    Somewhere there's a balance - but it gets lost
>    in the debates.
>
>
>> On the other hand, the system did have a problem when a person on
>> an office moving crew slammed the blade of a hand-truck under the
>> cubicle partition (from a hallway), striking the (~$13k)
>> workstation with enough of a shock that the HDD started making a
>> moaning sound until I quickly powered it down.  The HDD
>> completely died about a week later.
>
>    Shhhh !!! The real world NEVER counts !  :-)
>
>    Oh, and WHAT did you need a $13k workstation/server for ???
>    Whatever it is you can surely do it for a LOT less. Sounds
>    like something the pointy-haired bosses wanted because they
>    heard about it in Idiot Managers Weekly or something ......
>
>    (note - that kind of shit is why I'm gonna retire sooner
>    than later ...)

I was on a design team of a large microprocessor that literrally
pushed the limits of die size.  (IIUC, that microprocessor still
flies in the avionics package of the F-22.)  Each design engineer
had a workstation for schematic entry, logic simulation, and so
forth.  At the time of the hand-truck incident, my workstation
was also the build machine for the group-wide RTL model.  The
$13k workstation was a bargain relative to what Sparc machines
cost at the time.

-- 
Robert Riches
spamtrap42@jacob21819.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

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uefi malware--threat to all? pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org> - 2023-03-06 18:13 +0000
  Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-06 19:14 +0000
  Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2023-03-06 21:07 +0100
    Re: uefi malware--threat to all? pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org> - 2023-03-07 00:36 +0000
      Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "28B.I874" <28B.I874@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-06 20:10 -0500
      Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2023-03-06 17:11 -0800
        Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "28B.I874" <28B.I874@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-07 00:46 -0500
        Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2023-03-07 08:42 +0100
          Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2023-03-07 08:01 -0800
            Re: uefi malware--threat to all? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-07 16:49 +0000
            Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2023-03-07 19:08 +0100
              Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2023-03-07 21:33 -0800
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "28B.A864" <28B.A864@noqbgba.net> - 2023-03-16 01:24 -0400
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-16 09:59 +0000
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> - 2023-03-16 15:18 -0400
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2023-03-16 21:05 +0100
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2023-03-16 21:06 +0000
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "29V.X746" <29V.X746@noqb1u.net> - 2023-03-16 22:43 -0400
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-03-17 11:20 +0100
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-17 11:56 +0000
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2023-03-17 15:00 -0400
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-03-17 22:57 +0100
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "29V.X746" <29V.X746@noqb1u.net> - 2023-03-17 22:03 -0400
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-18 09:55 +0000
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "29V.X746" <29V.X746@noqb1u.net> - 2023-03-17 21:55 -0400
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2023-03-19 04:13 +0000
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "29V.X746" <29V.X746@noqb1u.net> - 2023-03-19 02:38 -0400
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-03-19 11:40 +0100
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2023-03-19 13:12 -0700
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "29V.X746" <29V.X746@noqb1u.net> - 2023-03-20 01:05 -0400
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2023-03-21 03:09 +0000
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-20 20:27 +0000
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "29V.X746" <29V.X746@noqb1u.net> - 2023-03-20 21:48 -0400
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-17 11:47 +0000
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> - 2023-03-17 12:36 -0400
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-17 11:46 +0000
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> - 2023-03-17 12:44 -0400
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-03-16 22:14 +0100
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> - 2023-03-17 13:09 -0400
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-03-17 23:35 +0100
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-17 11:39 +0000
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2023-03-21 02:03 +0000
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "29V.X746" <29V.X746@noqb1u.net> - 2023-03-21 01:13 -0400
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-21 09:00 +0000
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-03-21 11:52 +0100
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-03-21 11:52 +0100
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> - 2023-03-21 10:30 -0400
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2023-03-21 15:43 +0000
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> - 2023-03-21 12:29 -0400
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2023-03-21 17:46 +0000
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-202303.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2023-03-23 23:44 +0100
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? jeshgrca <jeshgrca@gmail.com> - 2023-03-23 21:56 -0500
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-202303.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2023-03-25 01:58 +0100
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "27E.G756" <27E.G756@noq24u.net> - 2023-03-26 20:26 -0400
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-03-27 02:37 +0200
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "27E.G756" <27E.G756@noq24u.net> - 2023-03-26 23:11 -0400
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-03-27 11:45 +0200
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "27E.G756" <27E.G756@noq24u.net> - 2023-03-28 01:09 -0400
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2023-03-28 01:26 +0000
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "27E.G756" <27E.G756@noq24u.net> - 2023-03-28 01:16 -0400
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2023-03-21 08:28 +0100
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> - 2023-03-21 10:22 -0400
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-03-21 15:54 +0100
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2023-03-21 18:25 +0000
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-03-21 21:20 +0100
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "27E.G756" <27E.G756@noq24u.net> - 2023-03-26 23:25 -0400
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-03-27 11:47 +0200
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "27E.G756" <27E.G756@noq24u.net> - 2023-03-28 23:01 -0400
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2023-03-29 16:43 +1000
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "22T.R732" <22TR732@noq24u.net> - 2023-03-30 21:41 -0400
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> - 2023-03-21 10:46 -0400
        Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-03-07 09:07 +0100
          Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2023-03-07 13:00 -0500
            Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2023-03-07 19:09 +0100
              Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2023-03-07 14:56 -0500
          Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2023-03-07 19:09 +0100
            Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "28B.I874" <28B.I874@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-07 21:39 -0500
              Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2023-03-07 22:35 -0500
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "28B.I874" <28B.I874@noabzba.net> - 2023-03-08 01:29 -0500
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2023-03-08 01:48 -0500
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "28C.I874" <28C.I874@noabgba.net> - 2023-03-08 20:35 -0500
              Re: uefi malware--threat to all? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-08 07:57 +0000
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-08 08:59 +0000
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-08 10:15 +0000
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-08 15:14 +0000
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2023-03-08 16:06 +0000
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2023-03-08 16:59 +0000
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-08 17:55 +0000
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-08 17:59 +0000
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-03-08 20:33 +0100
                Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2023-03-08 22:35 +0000
              Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2023-03-21 08:49 +0100
      Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2023-03-07 08:40 +0100
  Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "Andrei Z." <no-email@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-07 18:11 +0300
    Re: uefi malware--threat to all? pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org> - 2023-03-07 20:44 +0000
      Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2023-03-07 16:32 -0500
        Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2023-03-21 08:27 +0100
      Re: uefi malware--threat to all? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-07 21:38 +0000
      Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Bobbie Sellers <bliss@mouse-potato.com> - 2023-03-07 21:38 -0800
        Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-03-08 12:00 +0100
          Re: uefi malware--threat to all? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-03-08 11:06 +0000
          Re: uefi malware--threat to all? Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2023-03-08 12:50 +0100
            Re: uefi malware--threat to all? "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-03-08 13:20 +0100

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