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Re: The joy of FORTRAN

From rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers, comp.os.linux.misc
Subject Re: The joy of FORTRAN
Date 2024-10-02 16:29 +0000
Message-ID <lm5amtF93p4U2@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (16 earlier) <n-ednbNVDrThwWf7nZ2dnZfqn_ednZ2d@earthlink.com> <1114392917.749421134.280786.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> <WHudncjyj7eEHGb7nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <lm2u9aFs3voU6@mid.individual.net> <vdj5v7$35p9c$19@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 11:06:31 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> The cost benefit is against the top down "we will write the whole
> detailed spec before we write a line of code" idea  that in my
> experience is actually worse.

I worked on one project like that, endless meetings arguing over paragraph 
headings. I left after six months out of boredom. I'd been doing some 
moonlighting for another employee who had his own thing going. The next 
spring when I talked to him about my tax documents I asked if they'd 
written any code yet. The answer was 'no'. It was a DoD project so you can 
understand the cost overruns and poor results. 

The danger is after so much time and money is spent preparing the spec it 
will be implemented even if problems are found. A whole chain of managers 
that signed off on it aren't going to admit there is a problem.

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Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-25 02:42 -0400
  Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-25 06:47 +0000
    Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-25 07:14 +0000
  Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-25 19:11 +0000
    Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-25 23:16 -0400
      Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-26 16:18 +0000
        Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-26 20:51 +0000
          Re: The joy of FORTRAN "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-09-27 11:32 +0100
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-27 12:10 +0100
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-09-27 14:15 +0000
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-09-27 14:13 +0000
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-09-27 22:00 +0200
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-27 20:38 +0000
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-27 23:33 +0000
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-28 10:29 -0700
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-09-28 20:17 +0000
          Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-04 01:19 -0400
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 05:48 +0000
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-04 02:03 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 06:56 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 07:40 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 20:13 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 22:47 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-05 06:12 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-05 23:20 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-06 03:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2024-10-06 16:06 -0600
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-07 03:02 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-07 10:00 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-05 02:37 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-05 06:13 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-05 07:00 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-05 08:08 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-06 02:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-06 03:43 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-04 08:39 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-04 08:00 -0700
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-04 17:06 +0000
            Re: python abstractions, The joy of FORTRAN John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-10-04 18:00 +0000
        Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-27 02:45 -0400
          Re: The joy of Ada Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-27 06:52 +0000
            Re: The joy of Ada Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2024-09-27 12:02 +0100
              Re: The joy of Ada Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-27 23:35 +0000
              Re: The joy of Ada "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-27 20:54 -0400
                Re: The joy of Ada Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-09-28 09:32 +0000
                Re: The joy of Ada "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-29 01:30 -0400
                Re: The joy of Ada Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2024-10-04 05:26 -0600
                Re: The joy of Ada Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-10-04 15:48 +0000
            Re: The joy of Ada Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-28 10:29 -0700
              Re: The joy of Ada Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-28 21:45 +0000
          Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-09-27 07:59 -0700
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Harold Stevens <wookie@aspen.localdomain> - 2024-09-27 11:08 -0500
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-09-27 09:32 -0700
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN R Daneel Olivaw <Danny@hyperspace.vogon.gov> - 2024-09-27 18:38 +0200
          Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-27 17:43 +0000
            Re: The pain of Excel Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-27 23:41 +0000
              Re: The pain of Excel Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-29 04:26 +0000
                Re: The pain of Excel Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-29 05:35 +0000
                Re: The pain of Excel Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-30 05:46 +0000
                Re: The pain of Excel Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 05:55 +0000
                Re: The pain of Excel Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-09-30 10:36 +0100
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-27 21:49 -0400
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-09-30 10:36 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-30 18:51 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 21:48 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-09-30 18:04 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-30 14:19 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 21:52 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-01 01:26 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-01 01:39 +0000
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2024-10-01 11:35 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-01 15:39 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-02 00:58 +0000
      Re: The joy of FORTRAN moi <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2024-09-26 23:30 +0100
    Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-26 17:52 -0700
      Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-27 17:43 +0000
  Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-26 17:52 -0700
    Re: The joy of FORTRAN geodandw <geodandw@gmail.com> - 2024-09-26 21:20 -0400
      Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-27 17:43 +0000
        Re: The joy of FORTRAN geodandw <geodandw@gmail.com> - 2024-09-27 15:09 -0400
          Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-27 20:38 +0000
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-27 23:43 +0000
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-29 04:26 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-29 05:36 +0000
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-28 03:18 -0400
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-28 09:12 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-28 08:24 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-29 01:28 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-29 05:42 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-29 20:00 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Harold Stevens <wookie@aspen.localdomain> - 2024-09-29 17:08 -0500
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-29 23:28 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-29 23:36 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-30 07:40 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 07:52 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-30 20:19 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-30 13:08 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-30 14:19 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-02 03:34 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN moi <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2024-10-03 17:32 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-01 01:06 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-01 01:42 +0000
                OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> - 2024-09-30 08:36 -0700
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-30 17:00 +0100
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 21:57 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-01 00:51 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> - 2024-09-30 20:32 -0700
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-01 16:37 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-02 11:02 +0100
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-02 16:43 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-02 18:07 -0700
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-01 13:51 +0100
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-01 19:00 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-02 11:18 +0100
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-02 16:41 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-30 14:19 -0700
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 23:34 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-01 19:03 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-01 22:00 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-02 02:40 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-02 03:05 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-02 07:29 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-02 08:30 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-02 16:46 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-02 18:11 +0100
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-02 22:33 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-02 23:53 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-03 02:10 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 03:48 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-03 10:56 +0100
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-03 15:34 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-03 18:38 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 22:26 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 03:26 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 03:54 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-04 10:47 +0100
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 19:39 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 22:24 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-03 23:55 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 00:38 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-03 18:11 -0700
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of Population Growth Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 01:46 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-04 10:20 +0200
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-04 10:39 +0100
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-04 17:06 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 19:46 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-04 10:33 +0100
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-04 17:06 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 03:01 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 03:53 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 07:45 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-04 10:44 +0100
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 19:44 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 20:32 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 20:31 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 23:52 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-05 06:16 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-04 10:39 +0100
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-04 16:40 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-04 21:05 +0100
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-05 02:37 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-02 18:07 -0700
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-03 02:20 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-03 10:52 +0100
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 22:22 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-03 23:55 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 00:37 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 02:53 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 03:53 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 07:42 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 20:18 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 23:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-04 16:46 -0700
                Re: The joy of Democracy Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2024-10-05 08:31 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-05 06:19 +0000
                Re: The joy of 1950s Democracy John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-10-05 15:51 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy geodandw <geodandw@gmail.com> - 2024-10-10 12:18 -0400
                Re: The joy of Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-04 10:21 +0200
                Re: The joy of Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 19:19 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-04 22:24 +0200
                Re: The joy of Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-04 17:06 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 19:22 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 20:30 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 23:14 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-05 06:22 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-05 07:03 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-05 08:07 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-05 23:59 -0400
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-06 13:44 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy geodandw <geodandw@gmail.com> - 2024-10-10 12:22 -0400
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 20:26 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 23:42 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-05 07:57 -0700
                Re: The joy of Democracy R Daneel Olivaw <Danny@hyperspace.vogon.gov> - 2024-10-05 22:52 +0200
                Re: The joy of Democracy John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-10-05 22:20 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-06 03:21 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2024-10-06 12:32 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-05 23:14 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-06 03:17 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-10-05 19:04 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-06 03:12 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-05 02:37 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-05 06:24 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-05 12:40 +0100
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-05 23:46 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-06 15:58 -0700
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-06 23:18 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-03 16:34 -0700
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2024-10-04 11:03 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-02 22:12 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-02 11:22 +0100
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-02 11:20 +0100
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-02 22:13 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-30 14:19 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-09-30 14:43 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-01 18:52 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-10-01 09:29 -1000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-10-01 13:30 -1000
                Re: The joy of RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-02 00:56 +0000
                Re: The joy of RISC Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-10-01 15:39 -1000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-30 12:48 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 21:58 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-10-03 16:00 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 22:26 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-10-03 22:40 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-03 15:52 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-04 16:46 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-04 10:41 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 19:11 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-04 12:15 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 22:35 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-04 23:44 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-07 07:56 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-03 23:07 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-04 10:44 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-10-09 18:10 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-10-09 16:36 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-10 01:05 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-10-10 07:25 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-10 10:16 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-11 01:37 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-11 14:43 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-11 18:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-11 17:59 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-11 21:17 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-11 23:22 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-12 00:43 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-10-12 07:03 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-14 08:06 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-14 21:09 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-14 21:26 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-15 10:06 +0200
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-14 08:19 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-12 02:07 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-12 02:30 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-12 17:34 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-12 21:37 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-13 00:23 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Schlomo Goldberg <schlomo.goldberg@mailinator.com> - 2024-10-12 02:35 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-12 07:44 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-10-11 19:05 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-10-10 18:10 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-10-11 10:59 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-11 18:33 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-10-11 19:04 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-01 01:19 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-29 22:38 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-30 07:26 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-30 04:08 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-30 14:19 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-01 00:56 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-01 07:54 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-01 18:44 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-01 21:28 +0200
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-01 12:57 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-02 02:12 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-01 23:48 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-02 07:27 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-02 08:31 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-02 16:21 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-02 17:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-02 11:14 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-02 08:24 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-02 17:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-02 18:41 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2024-10-04 17:37 -0600
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-05 01:39 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-05 02:37 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-05 11:55 +0200
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-06 02:32 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-06 06:05 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-06 11:41 +0200
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-06 13:43 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-06 11:38 +0200
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-06 18:00 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-06 22:02 +0200
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-10-06 07:05 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-06 15:58 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-06 23:22 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-07 03:13 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-07 06:40 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-07 18:43 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2024-10-07 19:17 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-07 20:33 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2024-10-07 20:35 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-07 20:35 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-10-08 11:18 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-02 11:09 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-02 11:08 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-01 23:27 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-02 11:06 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-02 16:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-02 17:52 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-02 17:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-02 22:06 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-02 22:26 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-03 01:22 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 01:27 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Don_from_AZ <djatechNOSPAM@comcast.net.invalid> - 2024-10-02 20:13 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 03:50 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-03 05:46 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 05:59 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-03 18:27 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-02 18:07 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-03 15:34 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 21:56 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-02 22:03 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-02 23:03 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-03 15:34 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-02 17:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-02 18:39 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-02 22:21 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-02 18:07 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-10-03 09:56 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-03 18:31 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-10-03 20:44 +0100
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-28 10:54 -0700
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-28 10:54 -0700
    Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-27 17:43 +0000

csiph-web