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Re: The joy of RISC

From Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers, comp.os.linux.misc
Subject Re: The joy of RISC
Date 2024-10-01 15:39 -1000
Organization Wheeler&Wheeler
Message-ID <87wmirth9w.fsf@localhost> (permalink)
References (16 earlier) <1297730607.749420765.030433.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> <lm2uncFsii5U1@mid.individual.net> <871q0zmxjy.fsf@localhost> <871q0zv1sd.fsf@localhost> <vdi5oo$2uj2c$4@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
> That was certainly a much more fruitful effort. IBM’s attempt to turn ROMP 
> into an actual product may have been an embarrassment (the RT PC), but 
> they more than redeemed themselves with the later POWER line, which 
> remains a performance leader to this day.

ROMP was originally targeted to be DISPLAYWRITER follow-on, written in
PL.8 and running cp.r ... when that was canceled (market moving to
personal computing), they decided to pivot to the UNIX workstation
market and got the company that had done AT&T Unix port to IBM/PC for
PC/IX ... to do one for ROMP ... some claim they had 200 PL.8
programmers and decided to use them to implement a ROMP abstract virtual
machine and tell the company doing AIX that it would be much faster and
easier to do it to VM, than to the bare hardware.

However, there was the IBM Palo Alto group doing UCB BSD port to 370
that got redirected to do BSD port to the (bare hardware) ROMP instead
(in much less time and resources than either the abstract virtual
machine or the AIX effort) as "AOS".

Late 80s, my wife and I got the HA/6000 project, originally for the
NYTimes to move their newspaper system (ATEX) off VAXCluster to
RS/6000. I rename it HA/CMP when I start doing scientific/technical
cluster scale-up with national labs and commercial cluster scale-up with
RDBMS vendors (Oracle, Sybase, Informix, Ingres that had VAXCluster
support in same source base with UNIX). Then the executive we reported
to went over to head up Somerset (AIM; apple, ibm, motorola; single-chip
RISC)

Early Jan92 in meeting with Oracle CEO, AWD/Hester tells Ellison we
would have 16-system clusters by mid92 and 128-system clusters by ye92,
however by end jan92, cluster scale-up was transferred for announce as
IBM supercomputer (for technical/scientific *ONLY*) and we were told we
couldn't work on anything with more than four systems (we leave IBM a
few months later).

There had been complaints by commercial mainframe possibly contributing
to the decision:

1993: eight processor ES/9000-982 : 408MIPS, 51MIPS/processor
1993: RS6000/990 : 126MIPS; 16-system: 2BIPS/2016MIPs,
                   128-system: 16BIPS/16,128MIPS

-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

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Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-25 02:42 -0400
  Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-25 06:47 +0000
    Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-25 07:14 +0000
  Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-25 19:11 +0000
    Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-25 23:16 -0400
      Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-26 16:18 +0000
        Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-26 20:51 +0000
          Re: The joy of FORTRAN "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-09-27 11:32 +0100
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-27 12:10 +0100
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-09-27 14:15 +0000
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-09-27 14:13 +0000
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-09-27 22:00 +0200
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-27 20:38 +0000
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-27 23:33 +0000
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-28 10:29 -0700
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-09-28 20:17 +0000
          Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-04 01:19 -0400
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 05:48 +0000
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-04 02:03 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 06:56 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 07:40 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 20:13 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 22:47 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-05 06:12 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-05 23:20 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-06 03:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2024-10-06 16:06 -0600
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-07 03:02 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-07 10:00 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-05 02:37 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-05 06:13 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-05 07:00 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-05 08:08 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-06 02:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-06 03:43 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-04 08:39 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-04 08:00 -0700
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-04 17:06 +0000
            Re: python abstractions, The joy of FORTRAN John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-10-04 18:00 +0000
        Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-27 02:45 -0400
          Re: The joy of Ada Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-27 06:52 +0000
            Re: The joy of Ada Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2024-09-27 12:02 +0100
              Re: The joy of Ada Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-27 23:35 +0000
              Re: The joy of Ada "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-27 20:54 -0400
                Re: The joy of Ada Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-09-28 09:32 +0000
                Re: The joy of Ada "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-29 01:30 -0400
                Re: The joy of Ada Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2024-10-04 05:26 -0600
                Re: The joy of Ada Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-10-04 15:48 +0000
            Re: The joy of Ada Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-28 10:29 -0700
              Re: The joy of Ada Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-28 21:45 +0000
          Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-09-27 07:59 -0700
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Harold Stevens <wookie@aspen.localdomain> - 2024-09-27 11:08 -0500
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-09-27 09:32 -0700
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN R Daneel Olivaw <Danny@hyperspace.vogon.gov> - 2024-09-27 18:38 +0200
          Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-27 17:43 +0000
            Re: The pain of Excel Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-27 23:41 +0000
              Re: The pain of Excel Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-29 04:26 +0000
                Re: The pain of Excel Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-29 05:35 +0000
                Re: The pain of Excel Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-30 05:46 +0000
                Re: The pain of Excel Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 05:55 +0000
                Re: The pain of Excel Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-09-30 10:36 +0100
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-27 21:49 -0400
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-09-30 10:36 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-30 18:51 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 21:48 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-09-30 18:04 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-30 14:19 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 21:52 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-01 01:26 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-01 01:39 +0000
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2024-10-01 11:35 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-01 15:39 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-02 00:58 +0000
      Re: The joy of FORTRAN moi <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2024-09-26 23:30 +0100
    Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-26 17:52 -0700
      Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-27 17:43 +0000
  Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-26 17:52 -0700
    Re: The joy of FORTRAN geodandw <geodandw@gmail.com> - 2024-09-26 21:20 -0400
      Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-27 17:43 +0000
        Re: The joy of FORTRAN geodandw <geodandw@gmail.com> - 2024-09-27 15:09 -0400
          Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-27 20:38 +0000
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-27 23:43 +0000
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-29 04:26 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-29 05:36 +0000
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-28 03:18 -0400
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-28 09:12 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-28 08:24 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-29 01:28 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-29 05:42 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-29 20:00 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Harold Stevens <wookie@aspen.localdomain> - 2024-09-29 17:08 -0500
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-29 23:28 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-29 23:36 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-30 07:40 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 07:52 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-30 20:19 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-30 13:08 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-30 14:19 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-02 03:34 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN moi <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2024-10-03 17:32 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-01 01:06 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-01 01:42 +0000
                OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> - 2024-09-30 08:36 -0700
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-30 17:00 +0100
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 21:57 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-01 00:51 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> - 2024-09-30 20:32 -0700
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-01 16:37 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-02 11:02 +0100
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-02 16:43 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-02 18:07 -0700
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-01 13:51 +0100
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-01 19:00 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-02 11:18 +0100
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-02 16:41 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-30 14:19 -0700
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 23:34 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-01 19:03 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-01 22:00 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-02 02:40 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-02 03:05 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-02 07:29 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-02 08:30 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-02 16:46 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-02 18:11 +0100
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-02 22:33 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-02 23:53 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-03 02:10 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 03:48 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-03 10:56 +0100
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-03 15:34 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-03 18:38 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 22:26 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 03:26 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 03:54 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-04 10:47 +0100
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 19:39 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 22:24 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-03 23:55 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 00:38 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-03 18:11 -0700
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of Population Growth Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 01:46 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-04 10:20 +0200
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-04 10:39 +0100
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-04 17:06 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 19:46 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-04 10:33 +0100
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-04 17:06 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 03:01 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 03:53 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 07:45 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-04 10:44 +0100
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 19:44 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 20:32 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 20:31 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 23:52 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-05 06:16 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-04 10:39 +0100
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-04 16:40 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-04 21:05 +0100
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-05 02:37 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-02 18:07 -0700
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-03 02:20 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-03 10:52 +0100
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 22:22 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-03 23:55 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 00:37 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 02:53 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 03:53 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 07:42 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 20:18 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 23:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-04 16:46 -0700
                Re: The joy of Democracy Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2024-10-05 08:31 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-05 06:19 +0000
                Re: The joy of 1950s Democracy John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-10-05 15:51 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy geodandw <geodandw@gmail.com> - 2024-10-10 12:18 -0400
                Re: The joy of Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-04 10:21 +0200
                Re: The joy of Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 19:19 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-04 22:24 +0200
                Re: The joy of Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-04 17:06 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 19:22 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 20:30 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 23:14 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-05 06:22 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-05 07:03 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-05 08:07 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-05 23:59 -0400
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-06 13:44 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy geodandw <geodandw@gmail.com> - 2024-10-10 12:22 -0400
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 20:26 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 23:42 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-05 07:57 -0700
                Re: The joy of Democracy R Daneel Olivaw <Danny@hyperspace.vogon.gov> - 2024-10-05 22:52 +0200
                Re: The joy of Democracy John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-10-05 22:20 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-06 03:21 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2024-10-06 12:32 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-05 23:14 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-06 03:17 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-10-05 19:04 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-06 03:12 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-05 02:37 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-05 06:24 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-05 12:40 +0100
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-05 23:46 +0000
                Re: The joy of Democracy Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-06 15:58 -0700
                Re: The joy of Democracy Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-06 23:18 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-03 16:34 -0700
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2024-10-04 11:03 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-02 22:12 +0000
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-02 11:22 +0100
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-02 11:20 +0100
                Re: OT ; Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-02 22:13 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-30 14:19 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-09-30 14:43 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-01 18:52 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-10-01 09:29 -1000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-10-01 13:30 -1000
                Re: The joy of RISC Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-02 00:56 +0000
                Re: The joy of RISC Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-10-01 15:39 -1000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-30 12:48 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 21:58 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-10-03 16:00 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 22:26 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-10-03 22:40 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-03 15:52 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-04 16:46 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-04 10:41 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 19:11 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-04 12:15 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 22:35 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-04 23:44 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-07 07:56 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-03 23:07 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-04 10:44 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-10-09 18:10 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-10-09 16:36 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-10 01:05 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-10-10 07:25 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-10 10:16 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-11 01:37 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-11 14:43 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-11 18:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-11 17:59 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-11 21:17 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-11 23:22 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-12 00:43 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-10-12 07:03 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-14 08:06 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-14 08:19 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-12 02:07 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-12 02:30 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-12 17:34 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-12 21:37 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-13 00:23 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Schlomo Goldberg <schlomo.goldberg@mailinator.com> - 2024-10-12 02:35 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-12 07:44 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-10-11 19:05 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-10-10 18:10 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-10-11 10:59 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-11 18:33 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-10-11 19:04 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-01 01:19 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-29 22:38 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-30 07:26 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-30 04:08 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-30 14:19 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-01 00:56 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-01 07:54 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-01 18:44 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-01 21:28 +0200
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-01 12:57 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-02 02:12 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-01 23:48 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-02 07:27 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-02 08:31 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-02 16:21 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-02 17:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-02 11:14 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-02 08:24 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-02 17:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-02 18:41 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2024-10-04 17:37 -0600
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-05 01:39 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-05 02:37 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-05 11:55 +0200
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-06 02:32 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-06 06:05 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-06 11:41 +0200
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-06 13:43 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-06 11:38 +0200
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-06 18:00 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-06 22:02 +0200
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-10-06 07:05 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-06 15:58 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-06 23:22 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-07 03:13 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-07 06:40 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-07 18:43 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2024-10-07 19:17 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-07 20:33 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2024-10-07 20:35 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-07 20:35 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-10-08 11:18 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-02 11:09 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-02 11:08 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-01 23:27 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-02 11:06 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-02 16:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-02 17:52 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-02 17:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-02 22:06 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-02 22:26 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-03 01:22 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 01:27 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Don_from_AZ <djatechNOSPAM@comcast.net.invalid> - 2024-10-02 20:13 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 03:50 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-03 05:46 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 05:59 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-03 18:27 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-02 18:07 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-03 15:34 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 21:56 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-02 22:03 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-02 23:03 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-03 15:34 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-02 17:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-02 18:39 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-02 22:21 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-02 18:07 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-10-03 09:56 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-03 18:31 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-10-03 20:44 +0100
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-28 10:54 -0700
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-28 10:54 -0700
    Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-27 17:43 +0000

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