Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ?

From	D <nospam@example.net>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.misc
Subject	Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ?
Date	2024-12-19 11:09 +0100
Organization	i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID	<906f9faf-131f-d898-f44a-95ecb207c2fe@example.net> (permalink)
References	(16 earlier) <ls9l9fFcabuU3@mid.individual.net> <02c11de7-8cd5-3248-e817-e336bf7d892d@example.net> <slrnvm14lg.3j65k.lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> <7d544b05-893d-cc86-14e7-4b90885bdcf1@example.net> <SbCdnaaMzbQrN_76nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@earthlink.com>

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On Thu, 19 Dec 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> On 12/17/24 4:34 AM, D wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, 16 Dec 2024, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 23:09:13 +0100, D wrote:
>>> D> Ahh... the land of the free! Try 31% in sweden or around 20% where I am
>>> D> now. Oh, and the 31% has a cap, so you only get part of that to fund
>>> D> your own retirement. The rest goes to happy arabians!
>>> 
>>> On Mon, 16 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
>>> rb> There is a yearly maximum for the SS tax, which gets raised 
>>> frequently. It
>>> rb> was nice to max out and have a few weeks without the deduction at the 
>>> end
>>> rb> of the year. The current cap is $168,600 so I would guess the majority 
>>> of
>>> rb> the workers don't see those bonus weeks anymore.
>>> 
>>> On 2024-12-16, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>> Jesus! I thought it was only in sweden. Well, as you say it's 168k, so I
>>>> imagine that the majority of people in the US never hit the cap.
>>> 
>>> rb> Of course your benefits are taxed. Some states don't tax SS benefits 
>>> but
>>> rb> this one does so both the Feds and the state have their hands out. 
>>> Then if
>>> rb> you have an IRA or other retirement account there is a required 
>>> minimum
>>> rb> distribution yearly which is taxed when you hit 73.
>>> 
>>>> Of course it is taxed! ;) And your private retirement savings are taxed 
>>>> as
>>>> well, so a nice double tax. First the salary, and then you save it, and 
>>>> it
>>>> is of course taxed again at withdrawal.
>>> 
>>> The salary that goes into the retirement account is NOT taxed (the
>>> contribution is tax deductible in the year it is earned) but when you
>>> take money out later,  the withdrawals are taxable income. Not so
>>> unfair.
>>> 
>>>> If you're content to wait until you are at least 55 to withdraw money, 
>>>> you
>>>> can start a retirement foundation. The gross assets are taxed with a flat
>>>> tax of 0.3% or so every year, regardless of if the assets shrink or grow.
>>>> And in return you can withdraw your retirement savings for free. This is
>>>> not very well known, and I have never heard of a company that offers 
>>>> this.
>>> 
>>> So an after-tax savings account. How is this different from an ordinary
>>> savings account ... I guess the difference is that the interest is
>>> tax-free? Sweden special!
>> 
>> The difference is that in an ordinary savings account, you put in taxed 
>> money. In this type of account, your company can put in gross earnings, 
>> have the capital gains being taxed at only 0.3% (ish) flat fee per year, 
>> and then when you, the employee, withdraw it, it's taxed as retirement 
>> income.
>
>  There's barely any POINT in such plans if the money is
>  eventually taxed (at current rates) when you finally
>  need it. May as well have just made an ordinary bank
>  savings account or similar - you will get more back
>  when all is said and done.

You are a wise man! That is exactly why my retirement savings consists on 
a regular account, within the shell of my company (to cut the tax from 30% 
to 15%).

Some stuff I need to do, I can then just do on behalf of the company, and 
basically use gross earnings towards that. If I need pocket money, I need 
to bite the bullet and pay 15% (plus of course the corp tax at 15%).

>> If you put in your taxed savings into a "kapitalförsäkring" you can 
>> withdraw the money tax free, but the flat tax is higher, it's currently 
>> 0,888% for 2025.
>> 
>> How did you do the rb/D quoting? Do you have a script for that? It was very 
>> beautiful.
>

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Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-12 03:42 -0500
  Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 10:52 +0100
    Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-12 11:19 +0000
      Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-12 16:14 +0100
        Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-12 20:44 +0000
          Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-12 23:29 -0500
          Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-13 11:02 +0100
            Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 21:24 +0000
              Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-13 23:17 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-13 23:56 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 12:20 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-14 18:56 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-14 20:01 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 23:27 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-15 02:18 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 11:44 +0100
                The Joy of *small* business Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-12-14 21:26 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 23:31 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-12-15 14:08 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-12-15 14:15 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 18:05 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 18:02 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-15 19:47 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 23:10 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-16 00:04 -0500
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-16 10:44 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-16 21:18 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-16 21:14 -0500
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-17 04:07 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-17 10:49 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-17 10:28 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-17 21:41 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-18 00:05 -0500
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-18 07:09 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-18 10:01 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-18 19:11 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-18 20:15 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-18 23:02 -0500
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-19 05:09 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-19 11:07 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-19 10:08 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-19 10:59 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-18 22:32 -0500
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-19 05:06 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-19 10:01 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-19 19:43 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-18 22:03 -0500
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-19 05:14 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-19 09:59 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business Don_from_AZ <djatechNOSPAM@comcast.net.invalid> - 2024-12-19 09:45 -0700
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-19 19:06 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-19 09:56 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-19 19:08 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-19 16:35 -0500
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-20 03:32 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-20 03:56 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-20 05:05 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-20 10:42 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-20 11:00 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-18 21:56 -0500
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-19 05:25 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-19 09:50 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-19 19:49 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-19 09:47 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-18 10:00 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-18 23:28 -0500
                Re: The Joy of *small* business "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-19 00:16 -0500
                Re: The Joy of *small* business The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-19 10:17 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-19 10:15 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-20 03:22 -0500
                Re: The Joy of *small* business Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-20 09:18 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-20 11:45 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-21 01:23 -0500
                Re: The Joy of *small* business Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-21 09:54 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-21 21:45 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-22 09:40 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-22 12:06 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-21 22:04 -0500
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-22 05:46 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-22 02:12 -0500
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-22 09:31 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-22 09:53 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-22 12:28 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-22 15:22 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-22 22:54 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-23 08:46 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-23 12:59 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-23 00:13 -0500
                Re: The Joy of *small* business Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-23 06:09 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-23 08:15 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-12-23 18:20 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-23 21:29 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-23 09:10 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-24 02:10 -0500
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-23 06:26 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-23 12:55 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-23 09:10 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-23 12:43 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-24 01:57 -0500
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-24 15:28 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-24 21:08 -0500
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-25 12:36 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-22 20:54 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-22 23:42 -0500
                Re: The Joy of *small* business The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-23 09:05 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-24 01:24 -0500
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-23 12:38 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-22 12:24 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-22 21:12 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-23 12:15 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-22 23:14 -0500
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-23 12:35 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-22 09:29 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-20 11:38 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-20 20:30 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-21 01:40 -0500
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-21 08:15 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-18 20:34 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-18 20:17 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-19 10:40 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-19 10:27 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-18 23:32 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-19 10:52 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-18 19:56 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-17 21:38 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-18 20:24 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-18 23:38 -0500
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-19 11:00 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-17 23:56 -0500
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-18 20:31 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-18 21:49 -0500
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-19 10:56 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-17 10:47 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-17 22:31 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-18 20:28 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-18 23:48 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-19 10:54 +0100
                Re: The Joy of *small* business rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-19 19:22 +0000
                Re: The Joy of *small* business D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-20 10:27 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 23:07 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-15 02:24 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 11:46 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-15 19:43 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-15 23:09 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-16 03:31 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-16 10:35 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-12-16 20:50 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-12-17 03:14 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-17 10:34 +0100
                Newsreader mechanicals Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-12-17 20:17 +0000
                Re: Newsreader mechanicals Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-12-17 18:41 -0500
                Re: Newsreader mechanicals D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-18 19:58 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-12-17 20:21 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-18 20:03 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-12-17 20:28 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-18 20:03 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-19 00:10 -0500
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-19 11:09 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-16 11:46 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-16 14:28 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-16 11:40 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-16 14:25 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-16 14:01 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-16 08:42 -0800
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-16 17:35 +0000
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-16 19:45 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-12-16 12:17 -0800
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-17 10:20 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-16 19:41 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-12-18 00:16 -0500
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-18 20:36 +0100
                Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 12:19 +0100
              Re: Remember "Bit-Slice" Chips ? D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-12-14 12:14 +0100

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