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The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > On 18/02/2023 23:23, Computer Nerd Kev wrote: >> 25B.R866 <25B.R866@noaaba.net> wrote: >>> Electrics are VASTLY simpler machines - usually you don't >>> even need a transmission. >> >> MECHANICALLY simpler. If you're driving along and your motor >> controller lets out the smoke, you're not exactly going to be able >> to rig up a fix on the road side. Probably not even if you're the >> engineer who designed it. >> >> From what I've heard, swapping entire hardware modules around >> isn't even straight forward, with different firmware and hardware >> revisions involved. >> > Sadly that is true even for current IC engines. > I have had more than my fair share of Limp Home red lights. Yes I agree, but electric overall isn't any simpler. _Maybe_ reliable enough that by the time the electronics start breaking down the value of an old model isn't worth the big cost of replacing a dead battery anyway, so it doesn't matter. But some will/do break down early (maybe fewer than with IC though) and fixing them won't be any _easier_ than with IC because the overall design is still hideously complicated. > So I bought a scanner dongle. Even that wasn't a complete solution as > the error code I got 'overheating generator' could apply to a hybrid car > generator overheating, or low coolant level or a US cooling fan in a > conventional engine. > > I topped up the coolant that was a little low, despite everyone assuring > me that low coolant level would initiate a LOW COOLANT LEVEL warning, > and the problem has not reoccurred.. > > Sigh... Sounds about typical. All these electronics make a lot of money for dealer servicing departments, I'm sure. > Fortunately in car electronics passed their period of random > unreliability some time in the 1970s, and its rare for a computer system > to fail completely. > And in reality there are probably *less* external sensors on an electric > system - current voltage temperature times tow or thee and that's it. > Compare a modern automatic turbodiesel like mine. Which has crank > sensor, possible valve timing sensor., MAF sensor, inlet temp sensor > coolant level sensor coolant temperature sensor, oil level sensor, fuel > level sensor, two turbo switch sensors and probably some CAT sensors and > EGR crap. Yes but you've got lots of thermistors monitoring the temperature all over the battery pack to try and tell when it's about to burst into flames. Current sensors to make sure that it's not being over-charged. Temperature sensors to make sure the electronics aren't over-heating (some are also liquid-cooled). More sensors to try and charge as quickly as possible without melting the charge cable or the dodgy wiring in people's homes. I don't think there's a great difference overall. But here are some of the teardown videos that helped me form this opinion. So seeing as you're into electronics too, judge for yourself. Inverter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drS3sEsxOO8 Battery charger https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=argrHjADn8g 3rd party charger cable https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O58KT117crs > And we haven't started on the transmission yet...or the ABS > brakes and cruise control, anti-skid traction control blah blah. But all the sensors for the latter are still required for electric. > And all of that is vulnerable to corrosions and high underbonnet > temnepartures. And 'critters'. > > It appears that 'critters' are a major source of electrical failure in > the USA. Count Australia in too. Don't get me started... -- __ __ #_ < |\| |< _#
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Short name for USB db <dieterhansbritz@gmail.com> - 2023-02-09 11:28 +0100
Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-09 11:55 +0100
Re: Short name for USB db <dieterhansbritz@gmail.com> - 2023-02-09 16:39 +0100
Re: Short name for USB Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2023-02-09 16:12 +0000
Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-09 17:48 +0000
Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-09 18:54 +0100
Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-09 19:05 +0100
Re: Short name for USB "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2023-02-09 13:14 -0500
Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-09 19:21 +0100
Re: Short name for USB "26C.Z968" <26C.Z968@noaada.net> - 2023-02-09 21:53 -0500
Re: Short name for USB "26C.Z968" <26C.Z968@noaada.net> - 2023-02-09 21:40 -0500
Re: Short name for USB pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org> - 2023-02-10 20:41 +0000
Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-10 22:48 +0100
Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-11 08:22 +0000
Re: Short name for USB marrgol <marrgol@address.invalid> - 2023-02-11 10:41 +0100
Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-11 11:29 +0100
Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-11 11:22 +0000
Re: Short name for USB db <dieterhansbritz@gmail.com> - 2023-02-20 16:41 +0100
Re: Short name for USB Gerald Gruner <gerald314@yahoo.de> - 2023-02-11 16:33 +0100
Re: Short name for USB "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2023-02-11 10:59 -0500
Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-11 16:52 +0000
Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-11 19:06 +0100
Re: Short name for USB "25B.R867" <25B.R867@noaaada.net> - 2023-02-14 00:53 -0500
Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-14 12:46 +0100
Re: Short name for USB "25B.R867" <25B.R867@noaaada.net> - 2023-02-14 10:06 -0500
Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-14 16:29 +0100
Re: Short name for USB "25B.R867" <25B.R867@noaaada.net> - 2023-02-15 01:05 -0500
Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-15 12:27 +0100
Re: Short name for USB Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2023-02-14 14:07 +0000
Re: Short name for USB "25B.R867" <25B.R867@noaaada.net> - 2023-02-14 10:10 -0500
Re: Short name for USB Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2023-02-14 15:51 +0000
Re: Short name for USB "25B.R867" <25B.R867@noaaada.net> - 2023-02-15 00:57 -0500
Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-15 12:29 +0100
Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-15 12:07 +0000
Re: Short name for USB "25B.R867" <25B.R867@noaaada.net> - 2023-02-16 01:38 -0500
Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-16 10:24 +0000
Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-16 12:39 +0100
Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-16 18:44 +0000
Re: Short name for USB "25B.R866" <25B.R866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-18 00:29 -0500
Re: Short name for USB not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2023-02-19 09:23 +1000
Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-19 11:41 +0000
Re: Short name for USB not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2023-02-20 08:41 +1000
Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-19 12:53 +0100
Re: Short name for USB not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2023-02-20 08:46 +1000
Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-20 02:55 +0100
Re: Short name for USB Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2023-02-20 12:07 +1000
Re: Short name for USB "25B.E866" <25B.E866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-19 23:30 -0500
Re: Short name for USB Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2023-02-20 17:01 +1000
Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-20 11:37 +0100
Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-20 11:15 +0000
Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-23 12:01 +0100
Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-24 13:06 +0000
Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-20 10:43 +0000
Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-20 12:38 +0100
Re: Short name for USB not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2023-02-21 06:02 +1000
Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-21 11:12 +0000
Re: Short name for USB not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2023-02-22 07:43 +1000
Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-22 13:37 +0000
Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-20 10:35 +0000
Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-20 10:26 +0000
Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-20 11:44 +0100
Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-20 11:26 +0000
Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-20 12:41 +0100
Re: Short name for USB "25B.R866" <25B.R866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-18 00:25 -0500
Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-18 10:04 +0000
Re: Short name for USB "25B.R866" <25B.R866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-17 23:52 -0500
Re: Short name for USB "25B.R867" <25B.R867@noaaada.net> - 2023-02-16 01:36 -0500
Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-16 12:45 +0100
Re: Short name for USB Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2023-02-16 18:11 +0000
Re: Short name for USB "25B.R866" <25B.R866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-18 01:04 -0500
Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-18 12:37 +0100
Re: Short name for USB "25B.R866" <25B.R866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-18 23:11 -0500
Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-19 13:03 +0100
Re: Short name for USB "25B.R866" <25B.R866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-18 00:56 -0500
Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-18 12:40 +0100
Re: Short name for USB "25B.E866" <25B.E866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-19 21:28 -0500
Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-20 11:28 +0100
Re: Short name for USB "25B.E866" <25B.E866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-21 00:21 -0500
Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-21 12:52 +0100
Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-15 07:34 +0000
Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-15 08:13 +0000
Re: Short name for USB "25B.R866" <25B.R866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-18 01:39 -0500
Re: Short name for USB not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2023-02-12 08:01 +1000
Re: Short name for USB "25B.R866" <25B.R866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-18 01:50 -0500
Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-18 10:11 +0000
Re: Short name for USB "25B.R866" <25B.R866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-18 23:08 -0500
Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-19 11:53 +0000
Re: Short name for USB "25B.E866" <25B.E866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-19 23:11 -0500
Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-20 11:31 +0100
Re: Short name for USB Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2023-02-20 18:03 +0000
Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-20 19:21 +0000
Re: Short name for USB "25B.E866" <25B.E866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-20 23:57 -0500
Re: Short name for USB "25B.E866" <25B.E866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-21 00:27 -0500
Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-21 11:16 +0000
Re: Short name for USB "25B.E866" <25B.E866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-22 01:23 -0500
Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-19 13:04 +0100
Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-19 14:11 +0000
Re: Short name for USB "25B.E866" <25B.E866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-19 23:18 -0500
Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-20 10:46 +0000
Re: Short name for USB "25B.E866" <25B.E866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-20 22:15 -0500
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