Re: Short name for USB

From	The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.misc
Subject	Re: Short name for USB
Date	2023-02-20 11:15 +0000
Organization	A little, after lunch
Message-ID	<tsvkp8$ogna$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(19 earlier) <63f2a6be@news.ausics.net> <0i0bcjxks1.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <pSednd0kcqIHam_-nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <63f31add@news.ausics.net> <k5h0rcFg31nU3@mid.individual.net>

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On 20/02/2023 10:37, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2023-02-20 08:01, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> 25B.E866 <25B.E866@noaaba.net> wrote:
>>> On 2/19/23 8:55 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>> On 2023-02-19 23:46, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2023-02-19 00:23, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>>>>> 25B.R866 <25B.R866@noaaba.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> ??? Electrics are VASTLY simpler machines - usually you don't
>>>>>>>> ??? even need a transmission.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> MECHANICALLY simpler. If you're driving along and your motor
>>>>>>> controller lets out the smoke, you're not exactly going to be able
>>>>>>> to rig up a fix on the road side. Probably not even if you're the
>>>>>>> engineer who designed it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Same with an ICE.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the motor computer in my gasoline car breaks, I can not start 
>>>>>> or run
>>>>>> the car till it is repaired or replaced.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes but electric isn't making that situation any better, which is
>>>>> what I read from 25B.R866's "Electrics are VASTLY simpler
>>>>> machines". In fact if a current model of either breaks down it's
>>>>> probably an equal headache to fix because neither technology is
>>>>> remotely simple anymore.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mechanically they are way simpler.
>>>
>>>    That was my main point ... consider ALL the moving parts
>>>    in today's petrol engines. The things are VERY complicated.
>>>    Yea, x-percent of the parts are just replicated, but still
>>>    it's a LOT of parts and there are a few VITAL support
>>>    systems too.
>>>
>>>    Electrics = stator+rotor and a couple bearings and you don't
>>>    even need a tranny. Feed the wheels directly and you can
>>>    skip the pumpkin(s) too.
>>>
>>>    In BOTH kinds of motors, these days, there's a complicated
>>>    computerized control unit. They won't run without it. Yer
>>>    '54 Chevy would, but not anything made today. On the plus
>>>    side, such units are basically plug-ins - quick (but $$$)
>>>    to replace.
>>
>> Actually the complicated control unit made the mechanical parts
>> less complicated in IC engines (no distributor, carburettor,
>> etc.). The mechanical complexity went down, but the overall
>> complexity went up. What I think you're trying to say is that
>> _reliability_ is better with electric cars (provided they get the
>> design right, I suppose), and in principle I agree with that.
> 
> Well, an EV has no gears, no clutch. No transmission turbine. No oil 
> pump. No water cooling (maybe the batteries need that?). No belts. No 
> camshaft or chain. Possibly no differential transmission, or no 
> transmission at all. Possibly four wheel drive with no transmission.
> 
So? Complexity does not equal unreliability if the individual components 
have a high MTBF and preventative maintenance is carried out.
The problem is that the major component of an electric car - the battery 
- is likely to fail after 50-100,000 miles.
One huge critical not very reliable component.
I've been running battery power electric model aircraft for two decades 
now, on and off.
THE single most unreliable item has been the flight batteries,m which 
you generally bin after a year or two as they lose capacity and develop 
high internal resistance.

The second most prevalent failure in the early days was the bronze 
bushings and carbon brushes on the cheap DC motors we totally abused. 
Today they have gone and we have ball bearing equipped brushless motor 
driven by a $10 Chinese made controller, that is simply fit and forget. 
If you are conservative about your ratings that is.

Electronics are remarkably reliable. Most stuff that worked once carries 
on working. The exception being some capacitors, and the 
electromechanical items like potentiometers.

Semiconductors do age, and high temperatures accelerate that process so 
blown power stuff happens in the end if you run then too hot, but for 
the vast majority of low power stuff the MTBF will be several times the 
expected lifetime of the car.

I'd say the weakest point in a battery car is the battery itself, 
followed by the cooling fans. Then the power transistors which will be 
physically large and replaceable by a fairly unskilled technician, If 
they are not in a simple replaceable block.

And of course the aircon system, which will be just as bloody useless as 
it is on any IC car, and the remote keyfob, which will disintegrate 
leaving you totally stranded unless you can get a recode at a dealership :-)

And the multitude of electrical connectors to the sensors around the 
motors and backs which will be exactly as unreliable as they are on an 
IC car.,

The mechanics may be simpler and not wear out, but the electrics will be 
even MORE complicated. Regenerative braking is one such item. Torque 
control on slippery surfaces is another. If you have a motor per wheel.

But all is in vain until the battery problem is solved. And Physical 
Chemistry shows that a theoretically perfect lithium battery made out of 
only lithium is needed to match range with fuel engines. At the moment 
we are perhaps at 15% of that, and in practice will never exceed maybe 30%.

Remember half the fuel in an IC engine is simply not carried in the 
vehicle, it is sucked out of the air.

Only Lithium air batteries can match that, and they don't even work 
properly in the lab, and are pretty alarming beasts to consider  having 
under your backside in a crash.

BEVs constructed around electrochemical batteries will never be as 
ubiquitous as fuel cars.
BUT to return to the point, the mechanical simplicity of an electric car 
will almost certainly not result in improved reliability, since 
unexpected mechanical failure on a well maintained modern car is fairly 
rare.

What you will see is a virtually zero service charge, consisting 
probably of air and cabin filters to the various fans, all the usual 
aircon crap, and brakes and tyres only.

And then 5 years in, a replacement battery costing one third of the cost 
of a new car, or more.

The electric motor is like the crankshaft of an IC engine. The battery 
represents all the rest. And it can does and will wear out rapidly.

-- 
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

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Short name for USB db <dieterhansbritz@gmail.com> - 2023-02-09 11:28 +0100
  Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-09 11:55 +0100
    Re: Short name for USB db <dieterhansbritz@gmail.com> - 2023-02-09 16:39 +0100
      Re: Short name for USB Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2023-02-09 16:12 +0000
      Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-09 17:48 +0000
      Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-09 18:54 +0100
        Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-09 19:05 +0100
          Re: Short name for USB "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2023-02-09 13:14 -0500
            Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-09 19:21 +0100
              Re: Short name for USB "26C.Z968" <26C.Z968@noaada.net> - 2023-02-09 21:53 -0500
      Re: Short name for USB "26C.Z968" <26C.Z968@noaada.net> - 2023-02-09 21:40 -0500
    Re: Short name for USB pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org> - 2023-02-10 20:41 +0000
      Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-10 22:48 +0100
      Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-11 08:22 +0000
        Re: Short name for USB marrgol <marrgol@address.invalid> - 2023-02-11 10:41 +0100
        Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-11 11:29 +0100
          Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-11 11:22 +0000
      Re: Short name for USB db <dieterhansbritz@gmail.com> - 2023-02-20 16:41 +0100
  Re: Short name for USB Gerald Gruner <gerald314@yahoo.de> - 2023-02-11 16:33 +0100
    Re: Short name for USB "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2023-02-11 10:59 -0500
      Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-11 16:52 +0000
        Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-11 19:06 +0100
          Re: Short name for USB "25B.R867" <25B.R867@noaaada.net> - 2023-02-14 00:53 -0500
            Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-14 12:46 +0100
              Re: Short name for USB "25B.R867" <25B.R867@noaaada.net> - 2023-02-14 10:06 -0500
                Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-14 16:29 +0100
                Re: Short name for USB "25B.R867" <25B.R867@noaaada.net> - 2023-02-15 01:05 -0500
                Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-15 12:27 +0100
            Re: Short name for USB Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2023-02-14 14:07 +0000
              Re: Short name for USB "25B.R867" <25B.R867@noaaada.net> - 2023-02-14 10:10 -0500
                Re: Short name for USB Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2023-02-14 15:51 +0000
                Re: Short name for USB "25B.R867" <25B.R867@noaaada.net> - 2023-02-15 00:57 -0500
                Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-15 12:29 +0100
                Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-15 12:07 +0000
                Re: Short name for USB "25B.R867" <25B.R867@noaaada.net> - 2023-02-16 01:38 -0500
                Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-16 10:24 +0000
                Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-16 12:39 +0100
                Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-16 18:44 +0000
                Re: Short name for USB "25B.R866" <25B.R866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-18 00:29 -0500
                Re: Short name for USB not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2023-02-19 09:23 +1000
                Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-19 11:41 +0000
                Re: Short name for USB not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2023-02-20 08:41 +1000
                Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-19 12:53 +0100
                Re: Short name for USB not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2023-02-20 08:46 +1000
                Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-20 02:55 +0100
                Re: Short name for USB Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2023-02-20 12:07 +1000
                Re: Short name for USB "25B.E866" <25B.E866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-19 23:30 -0500
                Re: Short name for USB Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2023-02-20 17:01 +1000
                Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-20 11:37 +0100
                Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-20 11:15 +0000
                Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-23 12:01 +0100
                Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-24 13:06 +0000
                Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-20 10:43 +0000
                Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-20 12:38 +0100
                Re: Short name for USB not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2023-02-21 06:02 +1000
                Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-21 11:12 +0000
                Re: Short name for USB not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2023-02-22 07:43 +1000
                Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-22 13:37 +0000
                Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-20 10:35 +0000
                Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-20 10:26 +0000
                Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-20 11:44 +0100
                Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-20 11:26 +0000
                Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-20 12:41 +0100
                Re: Short name for USB "25B.R866" <25B.R866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-18 00:25 -0500
                Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-18 10:04 +0000
                Re: Short name for USB "25B.R866" <25B.R866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-17 23:52 -0500
                Re: Short name for USB "25B.R867" <25B.R867@noaaada.net> - 2023-02-16 01:36 -0500
                Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-16 12:45 +0100
                Re: Short name for USB Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2023-02-16 18:11 +0000
                Re: Short name for USB "25B.R866" <25B.R866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-18 01:04 -0500
                Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-18 12:37 +0100
                Re: Short name for USB "25B.R866" <25B.R866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-18 23:11 -0500
                Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-19 13:03 +0100
                Re: Short name for USB "25B.R866" <25B.R866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-18 00:56 -0500
                Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-18 12:40 +0100
                Re: Short name for USB "25B.E866" <25B.E866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-19 21:28 -0500
                Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-20 11:28 +0100
                Re: Short name for USB "25B.E866" <25B.E866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-21 00:21 -0500
                Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-21 12:52 +0100
              Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-15 07:34 +0000
                Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-15 08:13 +0000
                Re: Short name for USB "25B.R866" <25B.R866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-18 01:39 -0500
        Re: Short name for USB not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2023-02-12 08:01 +1000
          Re: Short name for USB "25B.R866" <25B.R866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-18 01:50 -0500
            Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-18 10:11 +0000
              Re: Short name for USB "25B.R866" <25B.R866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-18 23:08 -0500
                Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-19 11:53 +0000
                Re: Short name for USB "25B.E866" <25B.E866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-19 23:11 -0500
                Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-20 11:31 +0100
                Re: Short name for USB Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2023-02-20 18:03 +0000
                Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-20 19:21 +0000
                Re: Short name for USB "25B.E866" <25B.E866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-20 23:57 -0500
                Re: Short name for USB "25B.E866" <25B.E866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-21 00:27 -0500
                Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-21 11:16 +0000
                Re: Short name for USB "25B.E866" <25B.E866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-22 01:23 -0500
                Re: Short name for USB "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2023-02-19 13:04 +0100
                Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-19 14:11 +0000
                Re: Short name for USB "25B.E866" <25B.E866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-19 23:18 -0500
                Re: Short name for USB The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-20 10:46 +0000
                Re: Short name for USB "25B.E866" <25B.E866@noaaba.net> - 2023-02-20 22:15 -0500

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