Re: Unsettling bash tutorial

From	Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.unix.shell, comp.os.linux.misc
Subject	Re: Unsettling bash tutorial
Date	2026-03-14 15:53 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<10p3soo$9ojl$2@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	<10otpi4$1opu8$3@dont-email.me> <10otrqi$1p9ft$1@dont-email.me> <10ou2q9$1qp29$1@dont-email.me> <10p3fhf$5tmi$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 2026-03-14 12:07, Nuno Silva wrote:
>>> <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/09/command-line-wizardry-part-
>>> two-variables-and-loops-in-bash/>
>>
>> I took the time to look more closely into that link above.
> 
> It's a... curious article, the first part of it seems to want to explain
> some operations with variables by repeatedly stating that the syntax is
> "unsettling".
> 
> Besides the whole thing about relegating bash to some place where it's
> only used as an interactive command interpreter and where it's not a
> "real language"
> 
>      «If you need to write a script for repeated use—particularly one
>      with significant logical branching and evaluation—I strongly
>      recommend a “real language” instead of Bash.»
> 
>      «Although the switch back and forth between referencing hello and
>      $hello is deeply unsettling if you’re only familiar with “real”
>      languages,[...]»

I see you wasted your time reading all the gory details. :-)

Your quotes show that the article is even worse than I thought.
The author obviously an ignorant, probably self-educated fellow.

Sadly, the world seems to get filled with such "experts". - So
we might be lucky if the AIs will replace most of them soon. :-/
(No, I'm just sarcastic.)

> 
> This is silly, I mean, one of the key strengths of UNIX shells is that
> you can use them to write scripts. In fact, these might be more suitable
> tools for some operations...
> 
>>>   > continues the author’s intro to basic command-line concepts. But it
>>>   > repeats a failing I see all too often in shell scripting: [...]
>>
>> Not only "a [one] failing"; it's full of bad coding practices!
>> (I suggest to abstain from it.)
>>
>>> Right. I can only agree with you.
>>>
>>> The more general problem is that there's so much stuff about shell
>>> programming on the web but most of it is sadly of very bad quality.
>>
>> It's exactly a paragon for the said many sources of bad quality.
> 
> I liked the detail near the end where it's apparently *echo* that gets
> rid of the whitespace in the argument, and not the shell's word
> splitting.

I'm not sure what specific part you have in mind. - Close to the
end I see for example

   echo zfs destroy \"$snap\"

A form with escapes that I'd never had written that way.

There's a lot other things of arguable quality; pipelines with three
greps and a sed, for example. Or unnecessary escapes after the pipe
symbol. Or using shell's 'while' loop where other tools process such
data better. - Not all those things are critical in any way, but I
also wouldn't call them the most sophisticated approach. - But then
we also see recommended patterns he used (like 'IFS= read -r').

And the same author advertises at the end another article of him:
"Learn to think in sed, awk, and grep". But he fails to make use e.g.
of awk in his zfs-multi-grep-loop command pipelines.

Janis

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  Re: Over-Elaborate Shell Scripting c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-03-12 03:42 -0400
    Re: Over-Elaborate Shell Scripting gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-03-12 12:34 +0000
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          Re: Over-Elaborate Shell Scripting The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-13 11:38 +0000
      Unsettling bash tutorial (was: Re: Over-Elaborate Shell Scripting) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-14 11:07 +0000
        Re: Unsettling bash tutorial Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-03-14 15:53 +0100
          Re: Unsettling bash tutorial Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-14 22:34 +0000
            Re: Unsettling bash tutorial c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-03-14 22:14 -0400
              Re: Unsettling bash tutorial rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-15 04:55 +0000
                Re: Unsettling bash tutorial c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-03-15 04:01 -0400
                Re: Unsettling bash tutorial gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-03-15 12:30 +0000
                Re: Unsettling bash tutorial The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-15 12:39 +0000
                Re: Unsettling bash tutorial rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-15 20:45 +0000
                Re: Unsettling bash tutorial gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-03-15 23:20 +0000
                Re: Unsettling bash tutorial rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-16 02:03 +0000
                Accessing args in csh/tcsh aliases (Was: Unsettling bash tutorial) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-03-16 02:41 +0000
                Re: Unsettling bash tutorial The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-15 12:38 +0000
                Re: Unsettling bash tutorial rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-15 20:47 +0000
                Re: Unsettling bash tutorial rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-15 20:44 +0000
                Re: Unsettling bash tutorial c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-03-15 23:36 -0400
                Re: Unsettling bash tutorial rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-16 05:48 +0000
                Re: Unsettling bash tutorial c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-03-16 05:11 -0400
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                Re: Unsettling bash tutorial The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-19 13:33 +0000
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                Re: Unsettling bash tutorial c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-03-16 09:52 -0400
                Re: Unsettling bash tutorial The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-16 14:21 +0000
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                Re: Unsettling bash tutorial The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-16 20:25 +0000
                Re: Unsettling bash tutorial c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-03-17 02:10 -0400
                Re: Unsettling bash tutorial c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-03-17 02:05 -0400
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                Re: Unsettling bash tutorial c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-03-17 01:57 -0400
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                Re: Unsettling bash tutorial c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-03-17 02:59 -0400
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              Re: Unsettling bash tutorial Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-15 08:08 +0000
                Re: Unsettling bash tutorial gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-03-15 12:39 +0000

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