Re: "They"

From	Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.misc
Subject	Re: "They"
Date	2025-09-23 09:23 -0700
Organization	dis
Message-ID	<10auhip$340it$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(23 earlier) <wM1AQ.3610$9qgd.1407@fx12.iad> <mjcdr6Fo0aiU1@mid.individual.net> <10ar1gj$27bne$1@dont-email.me> <10arr2t$2f2co$1@dont-email.me> <10atgog$2r9uf$1@dont-email.me>

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On 9/23/25 00:03, Pancho wrote:
> On 9/22/25 16:47, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 9/22/25 01:31, Pancho wrote:
>>> On 9/22/25 08:57, rbowman wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 22 Sep 2025 01:38:36 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Can you (or your mighty ChatGPT) find an ancient example of using 
>>>>> "they"
>>>>> to refer directly to exactly one person?
>>>>
>>>
>>> WIki does it <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they>
>>>
>>>> I understand what you're saying. I recall reading a book where a 
>>>> character
>>>> was referred to as 'they' and it was confusing until I figured it out.
>>>>
>>>> However 'they' is often used for a indeterminate single person. 'I 
>>>> don't
>>>> know who it was but they left a No Kings flyer on my windshield.' I 
>>>> do not
>>>> know if it was a he or she but I assume it isn't a whole herd of 
>>>> antifas
>>>> that the plural would imply.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Of course, but I would prefer to introduce a new specific singular 
>>> gender-neutral third-person pronoun. It would make things clearer.
>>>
>>> My worry would be that it would become like Ms, Mrs, Mrs. In the 
>>> 1970s women told use they should be like men, and have an honorific 
>>> that didn't depend on marital status. I thought this was great, made 
>>> thing simpler, but now we have women who want to be called Mrs or 
>>> Miss and get offended if you call the Ms. So it complicated things 
>>> rather than simplified, now I just avoid honorifics.
>>>
>>> Most of the time, I don't care about a person's gender, If people are 
>>> uptight about getting it wrong it seems simplest to avoid referring 
>>> to it unless there is a specific reason. I'm very thankful English 
>>> stopped gendering inanimate objects, like in French. I don't see why 
>>> we don't do it for people too.
>>
>>      Well I will recommend the English language solution, stealing 
>> without compensation a useful honorific from another language aka 
>> Japanese "san".
> 
> Yep, a few decades ago I worked for a Japanese multinational in London. 
> Westerners were given an etiquette guide. The main point was that we 
> were to call Japanese coworkers Mr or San. I choose San because it felt 
> less strange to me.
> 
> My main etiquette failing was using other people's chairs, e.g. walk 
> over to someone's desk to chat about something, grab the nearest 
> available chair. On the other hand we used the term Jap, similarly to 
> Yank, Kiwi or Kraut, it seems to have become taboo in the interim
> 

	Jap is wrong slang from WW II. Proper term is Nihonjin or
human being of Nippon which is a more accurate name. But
I am not going to look up why we started calling the archipelago
Japan.  Maybe it was the Chinese or Korean term.
	
	bliss

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Re: Floppies Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-09-19 20:01 +0000
  Re: Floppies "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-19 23:04 +0200
    Re: Floppies Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-09-20 12:39 +0000
      Re: Floppies The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-20 16:46 +0100
      Re: Floppies "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-20 20:30 +0200
        Re: Floppies rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-21 02:37 +0000
          Re: Floppies Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-21 05:01 +0000
            Re: Floppies rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-21 06:26 +0000
              Re: Floppies Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2025-09-22 07:04 +0200
        Tomato joke. "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-21 15:24 +0200
        Re: Floppies Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-09-21 14:09 +0000
          Re: Floppies rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-21 18:36 +0000
          Translations "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-21 22:00 +0200
            Re: Translations The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-21 21:32 +0100
              Re: Translations rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-22 01:16 +0000
                Re: Translations The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-22 13:42 +0100
          Re: Floppies Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-21 22:57 +0100
          Re: Floppies John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-09-22 08:35 -0700
            Re: Floppies Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-09-27 13:22 +0000
              Re: Floppies John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-09-29 08:23 -0700
                Translations in movies and such "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-29 19:29 +0200
  Re: Floppies Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-09-20 12:15 +0200
    Re: Floppies Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-09-20 14:43 +0000
      Re: Floppies The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-20 16:27 +0100
        Re: Floppies Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-20 17:46 +0000
          Re: Floppies Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-09-20 11:12 -0700
          Re: Floppies rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-20 18:36 +0000
            Re: Floppies Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-09-20 15:28 -0700
      Re: Floppies Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-20 19:05 +0100
        Re: Floppies rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-21 02:41 +0000
          Re: Floppies The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-21 09:32 +0100
            Re: Floppies Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-21 10:00 +0100
              Re: Floppies The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-21 10:28 +0100
                Re: Floppies Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-21 19:06 +0000
                "They" (was: Re: Floppies) vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-09-21 23:12 +0000
                Re: "They" (was: Re: Floppies) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-22 01:38 +0000
                Re: "They" (was: Re: Floppies) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-22 07:57 +0000
                Re: "They" Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2025-09-22 09:31 +0100
                Re: "They" Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-09-22 08:47 -0700
                Re: "They" Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2025-09-23 08:03 +0100
                Re: "They" Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-09-23 09:23 -0700
                Re: "They" The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-23 17:37 +0100
                Re: "They" rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-24 02:44 +0000
                Re: "They" rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-24 02:34 +0000
                Re: "They" The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-22 13:46 +0100
                Re: "They" rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-22 18:22 +0000
                Re: "They" ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2025-09-22 13:49 +0000
                Re: "They" Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-22 17:22 +0000
                Re: "They" rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-22 18:21 +0000
                Re: "They" "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-22 22:00 +0200
                Re: "They" Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-09-22 15:19 -0700
                Re: "They" Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-23 00:07 +0000
                Re: "They" rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-23 02:52 +0000
              Re: Floppies rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-21 17:48 +0000
                Re: Floppies Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-09-21 11:13 -0700
                Re: Floppies The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-21 20:14 +0100
                Re: Floppies Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-21 20:30 +0000
                Re: Floppies Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-09-21 13:50 -0700
                Re: Floppies Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-22 01:38 +0000
                Re: Floppies The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-22 13:43 +0100
                Re: Floppies Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-22 17:22 +0000
                Re: Floppies rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-22 19:23 +0000
                Re: Floppies "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-22 22:02 +0200
                Re: Floppies Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-23 00:07 +0000
                Re: Floppies Allodoxaphobia <trepidation@example.net> - 2025-09-25 17:07 +0000
                Re: Floppies Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-21 19:06 +0000
            Lingua franca "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-21 15:35 +0200
              Re: Lingua franca rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-21 17:58 +0000
                Re: Lingua franca The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-21 19:12 +0100
                Re: Lingua franca "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-21 22:09 +0200
              Re: Lingua franca Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-21 19:06 +0000
                Re: Lingua franca "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-21 22:07 +0200
        Re: Floppies Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-09-21 13:35 +0000
        Re: Floppies Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-09-23 16:16 +0200
      Re: Floppies rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-20 18:22 +0000
      Re: Floppies "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-20 20:54 +0200
        Re: Floppies Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-09-21 14:24 +0000
      Re: Floppies Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2025-09-21 11:11 +0000
        Re: Floppies "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-21 15:28 +0200
        Re: Floppies Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-27 16:28 +0000
          Re: Floppies The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-27 19:09 +0100
        Re: Floppies Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-09-27 12:47 +0000
          Re: Floppies The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-27 13:52 +0100
      Re: Floppies Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-09-23 16:17 +0200
        Re: Floppies Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-23 15:56 +0100
          Re: Floppies ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2025-09-23 15:21 +0000
            Re: Floppies rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-23 18:35 +0000
              Re: Floppies Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-23 21:39 +0000
                Re: Floppies rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-24 04:05 +0000
                Re: Floppies Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-24 05:06 +0000
                Re: Floppies The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-24 11:37 +0100
                Re: Floppies Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-24 16:53 +0000
                Re: Floppies The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-24 18:14 +0100
                Re: Floppies rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-25 00:19 +0000
                Re: Floppies Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-25 19:31 +0000
              Re: Floppies Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-24 00:28 +0100
                Re: Floppies rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-09-24 04:07 +0000
          Re: Floppies Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-09-23 18:23 +0000
          Re: Floppies Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-09-27 14:26 +0000
        Re: Floppies Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-09-27 14:10 +0000
          Words [Was: Floppies] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-30 13:04 +0200

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