Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python?

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From	Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Subject	Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python?
Date	Mon, 09 May 2011 12:52:27 +1200
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Steven D'Aprano wrote:

> Since you haven't explained what you think is happening, I can only 
> guess.

Let me save you from guessing. I'm thinking of a piece of paper with
a little box on it and the name 'a' written beside it. There is an
arrow from that box to a bigger box.

                            +-------------+
      +---+                 |             |
    a | --+---------------->|             |
      +---+                 |             |
                            +-------------+

There is another little box labelled 'b'. After executing
'a = b', both little boxes have arrows pointing to the same
big box.

                            +-------------+
      +---+                 |             |
    a | --+---------------->|             |
      +---+                 |             |
                            +-------------+
                                  ^
      +---+                       |
    b | --+-----------------------|
      +---+

In this model, a "reference" is an arrow. Manipulating references
consists of rubbing out the arrows and redrawing them differently.
Also in this model, a "variable" is a little box. It's *not* the
same thing as a name; a name is a label for a variable, not the
variable itself.

It seems that you would prefer to eliminate the little boxes and
arrows and write the names directly beside the objects:

                            +-------------+
                          a |             |
                            |             |
                          b |             |
                            +-------------+

                                 +-------------+
                               c |             |
                                 |             |
                                 |             |
                                 +-------------+

But what would you do about lists? With little boxes and arrows, you
can draw a diagram like this:

      +---+      +---+
    a | --+----->|   |      +-------------+
      +---+      +---+      |             |
                 | --+----->|             |
                 +---+      |             |
                 |   |      +-------------+
                 +---+

(Here, the list is represented as a collection of variables.
That's why variables and names are not the same thing -- the
elements of the list don't have textual names.)

But without any little boxes or arrows, you can't represent the
list itself as a coherent object. You would have to go around
and label various objects with 'a[0]', 'a[1]', etc.

                            +-------------+
                       a[0] |             |
                            |             |
                            |             |
                            +-------------+

                                 +-------------+
                            a[1] |             |
                                 |             |
                                 |             |
                                 +-------------+

This is not very satisfactory. If the binding of 'a' changes,
you have to hunt for all your a[i] labels, rub them out and
rewrite them next to different objects. It's hardly conducive
to imparting a clear understanding of what is going on,
whereas the boxes-and-arrows model makes it instantly obvious.

There is a half-way position, where we use boxes to represent
list items, but for bare names we just draw the arrow coming
directly out of the name:

                 +---+
     a --------->|   |      +-------------+
                 +---+      |             |
                 | --+----->|             |
                 +---+      |             |
                 |   |      +-------------+
                 +---+

But this is really just a minor variation. It can be a useful
shorthand, but it has the drawback of making it seem as though
the binding of a bare name is somehow different from the
binding of a list element, when it isn't really.

Finally, there's another benefit of considering a reference to
be a distinct entity in the data model. If you think of the
little boxes as being of a fixed size, just big enough to
hold a reference, then it's obvious that you can only bind it
to *one* object at a time. Otherwise it might appear that you
could draw more than one arrow coming out of a name, or write
the same name next to more than one object.

It seems to me that the boxes-and-arrows model, or something
isomorphic to it, is the most abstract model you can make of
Python that captures everything necessary to reason about it
both easily and correctly.

-- 
Greg

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Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-03 13:39 +0100
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-03 14:49 +0000
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-03 15:20 +0000
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-03 22:10 +0100
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Mel <mwilson@the-wire.com> - 2011-05-03 12:33 -0400
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-03 16:52 +0000
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-03 21:47 +0100
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-04 08:00 +1000
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2011-05-04 02:56 -0700
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-04 10:51 +0000
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-05-04 03:58 -0700
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2011-05-04 06:12 -0700
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-04 14:44 +0100
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-05 00:20 +1000
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-04 18:09 +0100
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2011-05-04 09:18 -0700
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-04 18:03 +0100
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-05-05 20:55 +1200
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-05 11:31 +0100
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-05-07 21:21 +1200
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-07 19:28 +1000
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-05-08 10:39 +1200
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-08 02:17 +0000
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-07 23:10 -0500
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-05-07 22:48 -0700
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-05-09 12:52 +1200
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-09 11:38 +0100
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-09 21:18 +1000
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-09 21:53 +0100
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-09 14:29 +0000
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Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2011-05-09 10:15 -0700
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Mel <mwilson@the-wire.com> - 2011-05-09 13:38 -0400
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-05-09 16:23 -0400
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-05-10 19:41 +1200
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Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-05-10 15:18 -0400
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-09 16:28 -0500
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Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-04 14:58 -0500
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-04 21:40 +0100
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-05-05 21:31 +1200
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Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-05 12:14 +0000
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Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-04 20:58 +0100
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-04 16:49 -0500
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-05 07:12 +0100
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Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-05 00:19 -0500
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-05 14:25 +0000
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? sturlamolden <sturla@molden.no> - 2011-05-04 07:44 -0700
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2011-05-04 09:40 -0600
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? sturlamolden <sturla@molden.no> - 2011-05-04 09:40 -0700
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Benjamin Kaplan <benjamin.kaplan@case.edu> - 2011-05-04 13:15 -0400
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? sturlamolden <sturla@molden.no> - 2011-05-04 10:19 -0700
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-05-05 15:48 +1200
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-05 05:58 +0100
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-05 14:24 +0000

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