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Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python?

From	sturlamolden <sturla@molden.no>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Subject	Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python?
Date	2011-05-04 09:40 -0700
Organization	http://groups.google.com
Message-ID	<29b1bdc8-7bff-445e-b660-53311ef1eb4d@p19g2000yqh.googlegroups.com> (permalink)
References	<4dbd1dbf$0$29991$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <sk9598-gli.ln1@svn.schaathun.net> <ippao9$mjr$1@speranza.aioe.org> <a6cd911a-55f8-4ab5-b428-960956287a63@28g2000yqu.googlegroups.com> <mailman.1155.1304524764.9059.python-list@python.org>

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On May 4, 5:40 pm, Michael Torrie <torr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Which is exactly what the code showed.  The first one isn't a mistake.
> You just read it wrong.

No, I read "call-by-value" but it does not make a copy. Call-by-value
dictates a deep copy or copy-on-write. Python does neither. Python
pass a handle to the object, not a handle to a copy of the object. If
you want to see call-by-value in practice, take a look at MATLAB,
SciLab or Octave; or consider what C++ copy constructors do in
function calls with value types.

The first one is indeed a mistake. An object has a value. A name binds
to an object, not to a value. If Python did pass-by-value, the string
would be inserted in an object (here: a list) with the same value
(e.g. empty list), it would not modify the same object by which you
called the function.

I think you understand what Python does, but not what call-by-value
would do.

C++ tells you the difference:

// copy constructor is invoked
// x is a copy of the argument's value
// this is call-by-value

void foobar1(Object x);

// no copy is taken
// x is a logical alias of the argument
// this is call-by-reference

void foobar2(Object &x);

// x is a pointer, not an object
// x is a copy of another pointer
// this is similar to Python sematics
// the pointer is passed by value, not the pointee

// in C, this is sometimes called call-by-reference
// as there are no reference types, but it's not

void foobar3(Object *x);

Sturla

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Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? sturlamolden <sturla@molden.no> - 2011-05-04 07:44 -0700
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2011-05-04 09:40 -0600
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? sturlamolden <sturla@molden.no> - 2011-05-04 09:40 -0700
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Benjamin Kaplan <benjamin.kaplan@case.edu> - 2011-05-04 13:15 -0400
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? sturlamolden <sturla@molden.no> - 2011-05-04 10:19 -0700
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Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@xemacs.org> - 2011-05-03 15:50 +0200
Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? sturlamolden <sturla@molden.no> - 2011-05-04 07:28 -0700

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