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Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python?

From Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu>
Subject Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python?
Date 2011-05-10 15:18 -0400
References (11 earlier) <92kh9cFgdcU1@mid.individual.net> <4dc5fd42$0$29991$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <92os6dF5jbU1@mid.individual.net> <4dc7fa2f$0$29991$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <92s8hlFqn5U1@mid.individual.net>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Message-ID <mailman.1386.1305055147.9059.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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On 5/10/2011 3:41 AM, Gregory Ewing wrote:

> Actually, you're right. What I've presented is a paper-and-pencil
> implementation of the Python data model. Together with a set of
> rules for manipulating the diagram under the direction of Python
> code, you have a complete implementation of Python that you can
> execute in your head.

I think that it would be both fun and useful to have an animated 
graphical tutorial that used and box and arrow model. Names should be in 
ovals (instead of the little boxes used here due to text limitations) to 
differentiate them from objects. Immutable objects could have solid 
boundaries and mutables a broken line boundary. Collection objects would 
have dotted lines to separate slots. Ovals could also use different 
lines for builtins, globals, and locals.

> And you NEED such an implementation in order to reason correctly
> about Python programs under all circumstances.
>
> I find it very difficult to imagine *any* implementation of
> Python, computer-based or otherwise, that doesn't have something
> equivalent to references. Whether you call them that, or pointers,
> or arrows, or object bindings, or something else, the concept
> needs to be there in some form.

Since namespaces link names in a namespace with objects not in the 
namespace, any practical implementation needs a third entity to link or 
associated each name with an object. This is pretty much needed to 
explain multiple links without objects being in multiple locations. It 
is also needed to explain how an object can link to itself.

-- 
Terry Jan Reedy

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Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2011-05-04 02:56 -0700
  Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-04 10:51 +0000
    Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2011-05-04 03:58 -0700
    Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2011-05-04 06:12 -0700
      Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-04 14:44 +0100
        Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-05 00:20 +1000
          Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-04 18:09 +0100
        Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2011-05-04 09:18 -0700
          Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-04 18:03 +0100
            Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-05-05 20:55 +1200
              Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-05 11:31 +0100
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-05-07 21:21 +1200
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-07 19:28 +1000
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-05-08 10:39 +1200
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-08 02:17 +0000
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-07 23:10 -0500
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2011-05-07 22:48 -0700
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-05-09 12:52 +1200
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-09 11:38 +0100
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-09 21:18 +1000
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-09 21:53 +0100
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-09 14:29 +0000
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Tim Golden <mail@timgolden.me.uk> - 2011-05-09 15:41 +0100
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2011-05-09 10:15 -0700
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Mel <mwilson@the-wire.com> - 2011-05-09 13:38 -0400
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-05-09 16:23 -0400
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-05-10 19:41 +1200
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-10 19:35 +1000
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-05-11 10:47 +1200
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-05-10 15:18 -0400
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-09 16:28 -0500
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-09 07:23 +0100
          Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-05 15:14 +0000
        Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-04 14:22 -0500
          Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Benjamin Kaplan <benjamin.kaplan@case.edu> - 2011-05-04 15:46 -0400
            Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-04 14:58 -0500
              Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-04 21:40 +0100
              Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-05-05 21:31 +1200
              Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-05 14:50 +0000
            Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-05 12:14 +0000
              Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-05 22:37 +1000
          Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-04 20:58 +0100
            Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-04 16:49 -0500
              Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-05 07:12 +0100
          Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-05-05 21:08 +1200
            Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-05 19:12 +1000
            Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-05 14:30 +0000
            Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? TheSaint <nobody@nowhere.net.no> - 2011-05-07 20:18 +0800
          Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-05 12:49 +0000
            Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-05 14:31 +0000
            Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-05 09:40 -0500
            Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-05-05 10:49 -0400
      Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-04 14:47 -0500
    Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-05-05 07:43 +1000
      Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-05 12:43 +1000
      Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-05 15:42 +0000
        Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-05-07 22:04 +1200
          Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-05-08 06:09 +1000
            Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-05-07 16:24 -0400
            Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-05-08 10:54 +1200
              Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-08 09:43 +1000
              Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2011-05-08 11:16 +1000
              Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2011-05-07 23:16 -0700
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        Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-05-10 13:49 +1200
          Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-10 03:13 +0000
          Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-10 14:05 +0000
            Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-10 16:09 +0100
              Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-10 15:16 +0000
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-11 01:27 +1000
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-10 16:40 +0100
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-11 01:44 +1000
        Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-05-10 13:51 +1200
          Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? MRAB <python@mrabarnett.plus.com> - 2011-05-10 03:47 +0100
          Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2011-05-09 23:15 -0700
    Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2011-05-04 14:52 -0700
      Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-04 19:46 -0500
        Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2011-05-04 21:32 -0700
          Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-05-05 22:06 +1200
            Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2011-05-05 08:41 -0700
              Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-05-05 10:44 -0600
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Chris Torek <nospam@torek.net> - 2011-05-06 17:57 +0000
              Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-05-07 21:39 +1200
          Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Mel <mwilson@the-wire.com> - 2011-05-05 07:44 -0400
            Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-05 21:48 +1000
              Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-05 13:59 +0000
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> - 2011-05-05 08:58 -0700
      Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2011-05-05 13:19 +0000
        Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2011-05-05 14:39 -0400
  Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-04 11:56 +0100
    Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2011-05-04 06:13 -0700
    Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-04 14:33 -0500
      Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-04 20:19 +0000
        Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-04 16:35 -0500
          Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-04 21:57 +0000
            Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-04 20:11 -0500
              Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Mark Hammond <mhammond@skippinet.com.au> - 2011-05-05 12:09 +1000
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-04 23:01 -0500
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-05-05 22:19 +1200
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-05 14:17 +0000
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-05-05 10:31 -0400
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2011-05-05 15:10 +0000
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2011-05-05 11:29 -0400
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-06 08:01 +1000
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2011-05-06 13:10 +0000
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-05 16:57 +0000
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-05 16:56 +0000
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-05 11:58 -0500
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2011-05-05 17:39 +0000
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-05-05 13:13 -0600
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-05 15:12 -0500
              Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Tim Roberts <timr@probo.com> - 2011-05-04 20:23 -0700
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-04 23:55 -0500
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-05 14:21 +0000
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Mel <mwilson@the-wire.com> - 2011-05-05 08:09 -0400
              Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-05 07:34 +0100
              Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-05 14:10 +0000
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Mel <mwilson@the-wire.com> - 2011-05-05 11:30 -0400
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-05 10:56 -0500
                RE: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Andreas Tawn <andreas.tawn@ubisoft.com> - 2011-05-05 18:27 +0200
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-05-07 22:09 +1200
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-06 07:56 +1000
              Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-05 14:14 +0000
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-05 15:11 +0000
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-05 11:00 -0500
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-05 16:52 +0000
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-05 12:03 -0500
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2011-05-07 22:12 +1200
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-07 12:03 +0000
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-05 16:48 +0000
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2011-05-05 22:24 -0700
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-05 11:18 -0500
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2011-05-05 10:28 -0700
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-05 12:19 -0500
              Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Chris Torek <nospam@torek.net> - 2011-05-06 18:17 +0000
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Chris Torek <nospam@torek.net> - 2011-05-06 19:06 +0000
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-06 14:25 -0500
                Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2011-05-07 09:43 +1000
          Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2011-05-04 16:22 -0600
            Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-04 19:51 -0500
            Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2011-05-05 14:51 +0000
      Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Hans Georg Schaathun <hg@schaathun.net> - 2011-05-04 21:20 +0100
      Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2011-05-04 22:10 -0700
        Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? harrismh777 <harrismh777@charter.net> - 2011-05-05 00:19 -0500
          Re: What other languages use the same data model as Python? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2011-05-05 14:25 +0000

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