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Re: Java EE on tomcat?

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On Sep 8, 11:22 am, Lew <lewbl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, September 8, 2011 10:53:18 AM UTC-7, nroberts wrote:
> > If higher ups decided that I had to work with Tomcat...no JBoss or
> > glassfish or anything...what limitations am I looking at?  What parts
> > of Java EE become unavailable to me?
>
> Some of the management console stuff goes away, queues go away, EJBs by default go away but you can add them back with Apache OpenEJB.  Why you'd want to, though, that's another question.
>
> Who are these "higher ups" and what makes them think they're qualified to make technology decisions?

Dunno.  People with more seniority, experience and authority than I
have at the moment.  I'm just trying to gage how much I should fight
this or whether using Tomcat would be quite reasonable.  Right now I'm
thinking that most of the complexity of the current code base is
caused by J2EE requiring a lot of "upkeep" crap and that simply
migrating to the current EE standards, along with some fairly straight
forward refactors, would mitigate most architectural "issues".

>
> That said, most systems run better on Tomcat, or better yet on Apache Web Server + Tomcat, anyway.  EJBs are a pain in the butt most of the time, and queues have specialized use cases you might not even have.  For the stuff you most likely care about, namely web pages, Expression Language (EL) the Java Persistence API (JPA), and JSF/XHTML, Tomcat is eminently suitable.

I'm completely new to Java but in reading tutorials and such I'd
imagine writing Java web applications without EJB, especially the
current standard, would just add a bunch of work.  What about EJB
makes it a pita?

> What are the decision factors in the choice between Tomcat and a more robust app server?  Even if you aren't the decision maker you should have insight into the balance sheet in that choice.  If they make a bad decision and you haven't done your fiduciary duty, then it's *your* fault.

Yeah, I'm trying to look into that.  As the new guy and one who has 0
experience with Java technologies less than a decade old, it's going
to be hard to get input I think.  I've asked what the guiding concerns
are though.

What could those concerns be?  The program I'll be writing is
basically this thing that imports data into a database, does some
manipulations and comparisons, and outputs a "report" in a particular
command language.  Various aspects of its use need to be limited by
access, pay-grade, responsibility...etc...  Based on my limited
understanding, what exists now doesn't need to be THAT secure, but
what they may want to do later would need a great deal of security.
Is it reasonable to write such a thing with the parts of EE possible
to use with tomcat?

>
> Whichever way you go, push for the latest stable version of the app server or Tomcat, and for Java 6 or 7 as the base language.  Push hard.  There's no valid reason to go with Java 5 or J2EE in the platform, given backward compatibility and the absence of license fees.  Only development and maintenance costs should weigh into that decision, and use of outdated and obsolete tools affects those rather severely.

One thing I've pushed on is trying to upgrade our JBOSS server to the
current version (we're currently stuck on 4.0).  I don't really know
what's going to be required to do this, how much work, etc...but I
felt it worth looking into.  Just got a push-back hard, from multiple
directions, saying that we're rewriting the whole thing to only use
tomcat anyway.

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Thread

Java EE on tomcat? nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-09-08 10:53 -0700
  Re: Java EE on tomcat? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-08 11:22 -0700
    Re: Java EE on tomcat? nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-09-08 12:08 -0700
      Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-08 17:48 -0400
    Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-08 17:56 -0400
  Re: Java EE on tomcat? markspace <-@.> - 2011-09-08 12:36 -0700
  Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-08 17:41 -0400
    Re: Java EE on tomcat? Torsten Kirschner <torsten.kirschner@gmail.com> - 2011-09-19 00:30 +0200
      Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-09-18 20:44 -0300
        Re: Java EE on tomcat? Torsten Kirschner <torsten.kirschner@gmail.com> - 2011-09-20 00:20 +0200
          Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-09-20 05:50 -0300
            Re: Java EE on tomcat? nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-09-21 08:45 -0700
              Re: Java EE on tomcat? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-21 11:19 -0700
                Re: Java EE on tomcat? nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-09-21 11:31 -0700
                Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-09-21 17:37 -0300
                Re: Java EE on tomcat? nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-09-21 11:29 -0700
                Re: Java EE on tomcat? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-21 14:26 -0700
                Re: Java EE on tomcat? nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-09-22 10:27 -0700
                Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-21 20:40 -0400
              Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-21 20:35 -0400
                Re: Java EE on tomcat? nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-09-22 10:23 -0700
      Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-19 21:55 -0400
        Re: Java EE on tomcat? eric@invalid.com (EricF) - 2011-09-21 04:38 +0000
          Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-21 20:29 -0400
            Re: Java EE on tomcat? eric@invalid.com (EricF) - 2011-09-22 02:41 +0000
              Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-09-22 06:08 -0300
              Re: Java EE on tomcat? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-22 08:39 -0700

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