Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder3.hal-mli.net!news.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!t3g2000vbe.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail From: nroberts Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer Subject: Re: Java EE on tomcat? Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 12:08:02 -0700 (PDT) Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 68 Message-ID: References: <3422627f-e7c5-43ab-98a6-88b98c1fa640@glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.28.224.25 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: posting.google.com 1315509346 4456 127.0.0.1 (8 Sep 2011 19:15:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 19:15:46 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: t3g2000vbe.googlegroups.com; posting-host=204.28.224.25; posting-account=yG8XEQkAAAAufx-VCHazgfIL-gE1KUVH User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-Google-Web-Client: true X-Google-Header-Order: HUALESNKRC X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:6.0.2) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/6.0.2,gzip(gfe) Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.java.programmer:7713 On Sep 8, 11:22=A0am, Lew wrote: > On Thursday, September 8, 2011 10:53:18 AM UTC-7, nroberts wrote: > > If higher ups decided that I had to work with Tomcat...no JBoss or > > glassfish or anything...what limitations am I looking at? =A0What parts > > of Java EE become unavailable to me? > > Some of the management console stuff goes away, queues go away, EJBs by d= efault go away but you can add them back with Apache OpenEJB. =A0Why you'd = want to, though, that's another question. > > Who are these "higher ups" and what makes them think they're qualified to= make technology decisions? Dunno. People with more seniority, experience and authority than I have at the moment. I'm just trying to gage how much I should fight this or whether using Tomcat would be quite reasonable. Right now I'm thinking that most of the complexity of the current code base is caused by J2EE requiring a lot of "upkeep" crap and that simply migrating to the current EE standards, along with some fairly straight forward refactors, would mitigate most architectural "issues". > > That said, most systems run better on Tomcat, or better yet on Apache Web= Server + Tomcat, anyway. =A0EJBs are a pain in the butt most of the time, = and queues have specialized use cases you might not even have. =A0For the s= tuff you most likely care about, namely web pages, Expression Language (EL)= the Java Persistence API (JPA), and JSF/XHTML, Tomcat is eminently suitabl= e. I'm completely new to Java but in reading tutorials and such I'd imagine writing Java web applications without EJB, especially the current standard, would just add a bunch of work. What about EJB makes it a pita? > What are the decision factors in the choice between Tomcat and a more rob= ust app server? =A0Even if you aren't the decision maker you should have in= sight into the balance sheet in that choice. =A0If they make a bad decision= and you haven't done your fiduciary duty, then it's *your* fault. Yeah, I'm trying to look into that. As the new guy and one who has 0 experience with Java technologies less than a decade old, it's going to be hard to get input I think. I've asked what the guiding concerns are though. What could those concerns be? The program I'll be writing is basically this thing that imports data into a database, does some manipulations and comparisons, and outputs a "report" in a particular command language. Various aspects of its use need to be limited by access, pay-grade, responsibility...etc... Based on my limited understanding, what exists now doesn't need to be THAT secure, but what they may want to do later would need a great deal of security. Is it reasonable to write such a thing with the parts of EE possible to use with tomcat? > > Whichever way you go, push for the latest stable version of the app serve= r or Tomcat, and for Java 6 or 7 as the base language. =A0Push hard. =A0The= re's no valid reason to go with Java 5 or J2EE in the platform, given backw= ard compatibility and the absence of license fees. =A0Only development and = maintenance costs should weigh into that decision, and use of outdated and = obsolete tools affects those rather severely. One thing I've pushed on is trying to upgrade our JBOSS server to the current version (we're currently stuck on 4.0). I don't really know what's going to be required to do this, how much work, etc...but I felt it worth looking into. Just got a push-back hard, from multiple directions, saying that we're rewriting the whole thing to only use tomcat anyway.