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Re: General Consulting Advice Urgently Needed

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Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> wrote in
news:2fl7d7djdq6cpho3qfqmckjt7h2rjbagg6@4ax.com: 

> On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 10:03:51 -0800, Roedy Green
> <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote:
> 
>>On Mon, 28 Nov 2011 15:41:11 +0000 (UTC), Novice <novice@example..com>
>>wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>>
>>>In a nutshell, if I tell him $10/hr, I think I'll be signalling that
>>>I'm so awful that that's the best I think I can get. If I tell him
>>>$100/hr, I 
>>
>>to play fair, you need to bid a fixed price for the whole project.
>>There is no reason he should be paying for your education.
> 
>      Yes, there is.  If a client asks for something unusual, he should
> pay for all time involved.  Obviously, there can be a fine line here.

Exactly! Finding that fine line is not so easy. Basically, if someone 
asks me to code functionality into a program that involves techniques or 
APIs that I've never used, I consider that something that I should learn 
at my own expense. 

For instance, the project in front of me calls for construction of queues 
of files and transferring of those files to a user-selected server in a 
Java application. I know that Java has classes for various kinds of 
queues but I've made very little use of them. I think I can learn them 
fairly quickly by looking for some examples in Google and doing a few 
simple prototypes but I don't feel like I should charge the customer for 
that time since I think he expects me to know how to do the queueing 
already. Ditto for doing the file transfers. Offhand, I'm not even sure 
if Java can do a file transfer like an FTP and I've certainly never done 
one in a Java program; I typically use Ant to automate the FTP of files. 
So figuring out those transfers is something I feel I should do on my own 
time. 

Now, if the technique involved were a lot more exotic or leading-edge, 
I'd be more inclined to your point of view. For instance, if they wanted 
me to communicate with a satellite in orbit over some kind of encrypted 
network, which seems like something even most senior developers don't do, 
I'd be more inclined to regard this as (self-?) education the customer 
should pay for. Queueing and file transfers feel too routine to qualify. 
But maybe that's just me....

> I have, on occasion, charged less for a learning opportunity, but I
> always make the point that I have a lot of skill and experience, and
> that it is of benefit even when I am working in an area that I am not
> expert in.
>
Do they ever ask you to prove that? If so, how do you do it? I just mean 
that body language and a confident tone of voice are all that a customer 
needs to sometimes but what if they been burned by someone who seemed 
self-confident and had turned out to be a dud and now wanted some kind of 
proof that you have enough skill and experience? Do you just refer them 
to your resume and references or is there more to be done?
 
>      Think of it this way.  You have to learn what a client wants and
> needs.  You charge for that, right?  So you already are charging for
> learning time.

I agree that learning his specific requirements is something I'm learning 
that I will charge him for. I'm more concerned about specific techniques 
like queueing or file transferring and whether those should be treated 
the same way.


-- 
Novice

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Thread

General Consulting Advice Urgently Needed Novice <novice@example..com> - 2011-11-28 15:41 +0000
  Re: General Consulting Advice Urgently Needed Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2011-11-28 11:37 -0500
    Re: General Consulting Advice Urgently Needed Novice <novice@example..com> - 2011-11-28 17:04 +0000
      Re: General Consulting Advice Urgently Needed markspace <-@.> - 2011-11-28 11:09 -0800
        Re: General Consulting Advice Urgently Needed Novice <novice@example..com> - 2011-11-28 19:48 +0000
          Re: General Consulting Advice Urgently Needed markspace <-@.> - 2011-11-28 12:14 -0800
            Re: General Consulting Advice Urgently Needed Rhino <no.offline.contact.please@example.com> - 2011-11-28 21:28 +0000
              Re: General Consulting Advice Urgently Needed markspace <-@.> - 2011-11-28 14:14 -0800
                Re: General Consulting Advice Urgently Needed Novice <novice@example..com> - 2011-11-29 05:24 +0000
                Re: General Consulting Advice Urgently Needed Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-11-29 20:44 +0000
  Re: General Consulting Advice Urgently Needed Novice <novice@example..com> - 2011-11-28 17:53 +0000
    Re: General Consulting Advice Urgently Needed Novice <novice@example..com> - 2011-11-28 19:52 +0000
    Re: General Consulting Advice Urgently Needed Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-11-29 07:20 -0400
      Re: General Consulting Advice Urgently Needed Novice <novice@example..com> - 2011-11-29 16:06 +0000
        Re: General Consulting Advice Urgently Needed Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-11-29 12:04 -0800
          Re: General Consulting Advice Urgently Needed Novice <novice@example..com> - 2011-11-30 00:12 +0000
            Re: General Consulting Advice Urgently Needed Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-11-29 22:02 -0800
              Re: General Consulting Advice Urgently Needed Novice <novice@example..com> - 2011-11-30 20:28 +0000
  Re: General Consulting Advice Urgently Needed Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-11-28 10:03 -0800
    Re: General Consulting Advice Urgently Needed Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-11-28 10:44 -0800
      Re: General Consulting Advice Urgently Needed Novice <novice@example..com> - 2011-11-28 20:13 +0000
        Re: General Consulting Advice Urgently Needed Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-11-28 12:59 -0800
      Re: General Consulting Advice Urgently Needed Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-11-29 14:04 -0800
        Re: General Consulting Advice Urgently Needed Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-11-29 15:07 -0800
    Re: General Consulting Advice Urgently Needed Novice <novice@example..com> - 2011-11-28 19:56 +0000

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