Re: xt as a single point of reference

From	Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: xt as a single point of reference
Date	2013-08-04 13:25 +0000
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<ktlknq$np9$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	(12 earlier) <HsednTHby4zgN2HMnZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d@supernews.com> <7xr4eav2kd.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> <M9SdnXMtRPVlmGPMnZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d@supernews.com> <ktleog$8fb$1@speranza.aioe.org> <noGdnSnpOtLn2GPMnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@supernews.com>

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On 2013-08-04, Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> wrote:
> Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> wrote:
>> On 2013-08-04, Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> wrote:
>>> Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>>>
>>>> I'm thinking that sane languages for large-scale development should
>>>> 1) follow the principle of least surprise, and 2) have extensive
>>>> error detection and diagnostics at compile and run time.  C's
>>>> pointer semantics even prevent it from checking for subscript
>>>> errors, thus the decades of buffer overflow bugs we've seen in it.
>>>
>>> Java, in other words!
>> 
>> Not even close!
>
> Which parts of this description does Java not fit?

It doesn't fit your #2 and it doesn't fit #1 in many ways as well. This is
clearly relative. Compared to C Java is much better in those areas but Ada
is much better yet than Java. You would really have to take a survey of
languages designed with safety in mind not that there are so many and then
you would agree Ada fits the requirements quite well generally, not just
compared to C. And Ada runs on bare metal and the JVM which is quite an
advantage over Java for writing an OS and many applications.

>
>>>>> C isn't really a general-purpose programming language: its
>>>>> properties are useful in the area for which it was designed, viz. a
>>>>> low-overhead language that can be used instead of assembler for
>>>>> writing the core parts of an operating system.
>> 
>> Not true of all platforms but close enough given all the world's
>> Intel x86 as far as you know.
>
> What have all the world's Intel x86es to do with any of this?  Of
> course, C is not used on every platform, but no-one said it was.

Right but platforms that don't use C as the OS language aren't suited to C
for systems programming. There aren't many of those but there are
some. OpenVMS is the first that comes to mind.

>
>>> Ah.  As Churchill put it, "it has been said that democracy is the
>>> worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been
>>> tried from time to time."
>> 
>> I don't agree. Several choices have been tried and did indeed work
>> better.
>
> And where are they now?

Still in service working right along. If you're going to hide behind
popularity contests than you're right back where you started. If you choose 
to open your eyes you'll see there are good choices that don't have anything
to do with C or UNIX such as I mentioned. I'm not talking about obsolete
languages or relics but languages that are still in used today for writing
new software. You'll need to pull your head out of the All The World R
Belong 2 Linux hole if you're to find any solutions to the issue here.

>
>>>>> Think about programming languages as tools.  C is a chainsaw.
>> 
>> There's no need to be insulting, said the Chainsaw Manufacturers' United...
>> 
>> C is a minefield. There's no reason it had to be this way except as
>> a surrogate religion. It was good enough for who it was for. It
>> continues in use in the face of much better alternatives
>
> And that's the point: it's good enough, and it's a lingua franca.  The
> Lingua franca itself was by all accounts a terrible language: it had
> only one tense, for starters.  But it was good enough, and it allowed
> people to communicate.

I don't agree, it's not really good enough. What we got from "good enough"
is a bunch of portable OS, all performing mediocrely on cheap hardware and
all more or less the same. And we got legions of buffer overflows, stack
smashing, subscripts out of range, race conditions, etc. The exploits and
bugs get more numerous with every release and every new application written
in C. UNIX and Linux have all but killed innovation to the point people like
you argue from the viewpoing that nothing else is acceptable and UNIX is
really ok after all. Really it isn't ok. That's what we're saying.
>
>> but for the sheer mass of existing systems and their old crusty
>> interfaces and people who refuse to demand better.
>
> Well, damn the people for wanting to use their existing systems.

They're damning themselves that they'll have no future systems and they're
dealing with various issues today from yesterday's shortsightedness and
wanting to use their existing systems instead of demanding better tools to
write a better OS with. It's rather circular. To escape requires an open
mind and real desire. Else tomorrow will be the same as today, Linux running
halfheartedly on yet another cheap platform. How dreary and bland!

>
>> Probably no language has so much baggage as C, and C is far from the
>> first language still in use. If portability is your goal, C helps,
>> but so does Ada because it's so rigidly standardized. For other use
>> it really would have been smarter to either pick a systems
>> programming language (assembly) for the systems programming parts
>> and a DSL for the rest.
>
> That strikes me as a spectacularly awful idea.  I wonder how long it
> would take to port Linux to a new platfrom if that advice had been
> followed.

Portability often gets in the way and is used an excuse not to adopt better
technologies. If your primary goal is portability then you'll never have the
best of anything. By necessity you'll choose inferior but more portable
things. C and UNIX are the best examples of that. Would you rather have the
best OS and languages to choose from that only run on one platform or would
you prefer to have UNIX and C running on everything. IMHO we don't need
Linux running all the places it already is and it hasn't improved the world
at all. If you want better performance and a better development environment
it's sensible to develop hardware and software to work together instead of
the Linux one sits fits all, sortof approach.

Bill

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RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-07-25 18:40 -0700
  Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-07-25 21:14 -0700
  Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-26 10:36 +0000
    Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2013-07-26 15:19 +0200
  Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-07-26 13:44 +0000
    Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-26 08:55 -0500
    Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-07-26 16:10 +0200
      Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision mhx@iae.nl - 2013-07-26 11:50 -0700
        Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-07-26 21:03 +0200
          Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-07-26 10:38 -1000
            Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-07-27 08:44 -0700
          Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-07-27 16:26 +0000
            Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-07-27 23:44 +0200
          Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-29 17:16 +0000
    Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-26 15:24 +0000
      Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-26 10:55 -0500
        Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-27 02:10 +0000
        Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision peter.m.falth@gmail.com - 2013-07-27 02:32 -0700
      Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-07-26 08:32 -1000
        Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-27 18:07 +0000
          Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-07-27 11:34 -0700
          Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-07-29 01:42 -0700
        Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-07-27 09:02 -0700
          Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-07-27 16:46 +0000
            Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-07-27 12:07 -0700
              Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-07-27 23:42 +0200
                xt as a single point of reference (was RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST) "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-07-28 22:43 +0100
                Re: xt as a single point of reference (was RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-07-29 01:10 +0200
                Re: xt as a single point of reference (was RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-07-29 01:36 -0700
                Re: xt as a single point of reference (was RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-07-29 14:10 +0200
                Re: xt as a single point of reference (was RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST) stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-07-30 10:12 +0000
                Re: xt as a single point of reference (was RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-07-31 01:25 +0200
                Re: xt as a single point of reference (was RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-30 12:27 +0000
                Re: xt as a single point of reference (was RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST) m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2013-07-30 06:31 -0700
                Re: xt as a single point of reference (was RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-30 14:03 +0000
                Re: xt as a single point of reference (was RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-30 16:46 +0000
                Re: xt as a single point of reference (was RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-01 12:08 +0000
                Re: xt as a single point of reference (was RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-01 08:20 -0500
                Re: xt as a single point of reference (was RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-01 22:20 +0200
                Re: xt as a single point of reference (was RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-02 02:59 -0500
                Re: xt as a single point of reference (was RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-02 13:32 +0000
                Re: xt as a single point of reference (was RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-02 09:15 -0500
                Re: xt as a single point of reference (was RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-02 15:17 +0000
                Re: xt as a single point of reference (was RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-02 11:28 -0500
                Re: xt as a single point of reference (was RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST) Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-02 10:17 -0700
                Re: xt as a single point of reference (was RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-02 14:14 -0500
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-02 10:18 -0700
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-02 14:32 -0500
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-03 00:00 -0700
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-03 02:00 -0500
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-03 15:20 -0700
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-04 02:42 -0500
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-04 01:27 -0700
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-04 03:29 -0500
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-04 11:09 -0700
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-04 12:59 -0500
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-08-04 11:43 +0000
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-04 07:13 -0500
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-08-04 13:25 +0000
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-04 10:20 -0500
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-08-04 16:09 +0000
                [OT] Free software ramblings (was: xt as a single point of reference) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-04 11:55 -0500
                Re: [OT] Free software ramblings (was: xt as a single point of reference) Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-08-04 17:03 +0000
                Re: [OT] Free software ramblings Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-04 13:13 -0500
                Re: [OT] Free software ramblings Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-04 10:33 -0700
                Re: [OT] Free software ramblings albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-08-04 18:12 +0000
                Re: [OT] Free software ramblings Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-04 13:17 -0500
                Re: [OT] Free software ramblings anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-05 16:55 +0000
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-04 10:17 -0700
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-04 13:23 -0500
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-05 00:30 -0700
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-05 03:40 -0500
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-04 23:26 +0200
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-04 17:30 -0500
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-06 13:52 +0200
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-06 16:41 -0500
                Re: xt as a single point of reference "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-08-04 14:00 -0500
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-04 16:28 -0700
                Re: xt as a single point of reference "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-08-04 19:03 -0500
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-04 23:31 -0700
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-05 03:48 -0500
                Re: xt as a single point of reference "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-08-05 22:41 -0700
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-06 13:27 +0200
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-06 06:22 -0700
                Re: xt as a single point of reference "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-08-05 22:39 -0700
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-08-05 07:50 +0000
                Re: xt as a single point of reference albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-08-05 18:28 +0000
                Re: xt as a single point of reference "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-08-05 22:43 -0700
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-06 00:10 -0700
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-08-06 00:16 -0700
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-08-06 00:17 -0700
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-06 00:47 -0700
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-06 13:35 +0200
                Re: xt as a single point of reference albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-08-06 10:24 +0000
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-06 13:32 +0200
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-06 06:24 -0700
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-06 13:19 +0200
                Re: xt as a single point of reference "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-08-06 12:55 -1000
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-07 01:22 +0200
                Re: xt as a single point of reference "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-08-06 14:03 -1000
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-07 13:56 +0200
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-08-05 07:46 +0000
                Re: xt as a single point of reference Bill Richards <billrich@gmx.com> - 2013-08-05 07:42 +0000
                Re: xt as a single point of reference (was RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-04 22:29 +0200
                Re: xt as a single point of reference (was RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-04 15:34 -0500
                Re: xt as a single point of reference (was RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-05 16:59 +0000
                Re: xt as a single point of reference (was RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-05 13:30 -0500
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-29 17:26 +0000
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-07-29 19:58 +0200
              Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-07-29 22:01 +0000
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-30 07:57 +0000
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-07-30 09:57 +0000
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-30 12:16 +0000
            Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision mhx@iae.nl - 2013-07-27 14:43 -0700
            Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-07-29 01:46 -0700
              Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-29 04:06 -0500
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-07-29 06:37 -0700
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-29 08:44 -0500
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-07-29 12:26 -1000
            Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-29 17:21 +0000
              Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-07-30 10:04 +0000
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-30 12:09 +0000
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-07-30 15:28 +0000
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-07-31 01:10 +0200
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-07-31 12:21 +0000
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-31 14:34 +0000
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-31 11:54 -0500
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-07-31 17:00 +0000
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-31 17:15 +0000
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-07-31 22:45 +0000
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-01 11:20 +0000
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-08-01 21:41 +0100
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-08-02 01:04 +0200
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2013-08-02 00:56 -0700
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-08-02 22:12 +0200
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-02 13:12 +0000
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-01 14:49 +0200
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-08-01 13:02 +0000
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-01 13:02 +0000
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-01 13:07 +0000
            Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Michael L Gassanenko <m_l_g3@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-12 04:45 -0700
              Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-12 07:17 -0500
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-12 15:01 +0200
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-12 08:19 -0500
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-12 15:33 +0200
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-12 12:39 -0500
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-12 22:36 +0100
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-12 17:00 -0500
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-12 23:27 +0100
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-13 03:22 -0500
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-13 16:39 +0100
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-08-14 00:57 -0700
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision mhx@iae.nl - 2013-08-14 02:04 -0700
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-08-14 02:19 -0700
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-14 11:15 +0100
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-08-14 12:50 +0000
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-08-14 12:49 +0000
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-13 07:51 +0000
                SYNONYM on VFX (was: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-13 08:33 +0000
                Re: SYNONYM on VFX (was: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-13 23:07 +0200
                Re: SYNONYM on VFX (was: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision) Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-08-14 02:00 -0700
                Re: SYNONYM on VFX (was: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-14 18:30 +0200
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-13 01:17 +0200
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-13 03:28 -0500
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-13 10:34 +0000
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-13 10:11 -0500
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-13 15:55 +0000
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-13 11:20 -0500
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-12 15:40 +0000
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-12 15:36 +0000
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-12 12:40 -0500
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-13 07:29 +0000
                Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-13 03:30 -0500
        Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-29 16:59 +0000
          Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-07-29 15:29 -0500
            Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-07-29 15:25 -1000
              Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-07-30 10:06 +0000
    Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-07-27 01:53 +0000
  Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-07-30 12:48 +0000
  Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-08-05 01:04 -0700
    Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-05 03:51 -0500
    Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-05 13:37 +0100
      Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-05 17:21 +0000
  Re: RFD: TRAVERSE-WORDLIST v6 revision anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-08 16:49 +0000

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