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Re: The Map Is Not The Territory

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rickman wrote:
> What this an *active* SIM card?

Yes.  It did receive the occasional provider spam.

> If the phone is active (meaning a
> paid up account) it keeps in touch with the towers which means it has
> to transmit periodically.  We all know that uses significant power.  A
> friend puts his phone in a locker at work and often the phone will run
> down in just 9 hours because it has to *shout* to try to reach the
> cell tower.

Searching is an expensive (power consumption wise) operation - the 
intention is to finish searching quickly, so the phone turns on its 
receiver all the time and goes round and round for all supported 
frequencies to find a signal.  So if you do that (put a cellphone in a 
place where it can't reach its tower), switch to "flight mode" or turn 
it off completely - both will save the battery.  However, my phone was 
lying on the table in the living room, checked into its network and 
didn't have to search for a nearby tower.

> I have also tested, extensively, a large number of dumb phones and
> *none* of them would last even two weeks while setting on the table
> when actually activated.

My Nokia dumb phone doesn't last for more than a week.

> On the other hand, once they are no longer
> active they last for a long time.  I use one as an SOS phone when
> kayaking.  I seldom have to charge it but have never actually checked
> just how long it will last.

I recommend the LG GS100, it did cost 200 Yuan, it's small and robust.

> I'm guessing you are in Europe.  In the US most cell plans include
> unlimited SMS for free.  It's the Internet access they charge for
> usually.

Yes, we have it the other way round.  Internet is pseudo-flat (with 
~500MB full-speed for 10 Euros/month, and then throttled down to 
64kBit/s), and SMS is incredibly expensive - up to 19.9 Cents per 
message.

>> An Android program to check all the power management stuff.
> 
> And you think this program is actually accurate?  I don't know, maybe
> it is.

It isn't that far off.

>> Ok, this "no DC-DC converter" is an implicit assumption
>> that I know (because I worked for a company who did power management
>> for smart phones), and you don't.
> 
> How do you know what I have and haven't done?

Your calculation was four weeks, given my data.  This is possible when 
you have an efficient DC-DC converter in the power path, so I assume you 
just did a power calculation, not knowing the actual constraints that 
prevent handset makers from putting in such a low-power DC-DC converter.

Maybe they will do with some next generations of PMUs that use much 
smaller coils for the DC-DC converters.

> According to your analysis they could significantly increase the idle
> time of their phones by doing this.  Is this really too much bother?

At the moment, they seem to bother more about slick animations.

> I don't follow that either.  I can get that 32 MB SDRAM (with 1 mA
> refresh current or 300 uA self refresh) for somewhere around $6.  I
> think that is cheap enough and low power enough.

It's not that bad, indeed.

> Thanks for the info.  I've learned a few things.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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The Map Is Not The Territory Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2012-06-27 17:44 -0700
  Re: The Map Is Not The Territory dambere@web.de - 2012-06-28 02:32 -0700
    Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-06-28 02:47 -0700
      Re: The Map Is Not The Territory John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-06-28 13:19 -0700
        Re: The Map Is Not The Territory dambere@web.de - 2012-06-29 14:29 -0700
  Re: The Map Is Not The Territory quiet_lad <gavcomedy@gmail.com> - 2012-06-29 14:44 -0700
    Re: The Map Is Not The Territory "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-06-29 12:17 -1000
    Re: The Map Is Not The Territory rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-06-29 16:15 -0700
  Re: The Map Is Not The Territory quiet_lad <gavcomedy@gmail.com> - 2012-06-29 14:43 -0700
    Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2012-06-30 10:46 -0700
      Re: The Map Is Not The Territory rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-06-30 19:54 -0700
        Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-01 09:14 -0700
          Re: The Map Is Not The Territory rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-07-01 14:12 -0700
        Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-01 20:40 +0200
          Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-01 12:15 -0700
            Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-01 23:52 +0200
          Re: The Map Is Not The Territory rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-07-01 14:41 -0700
            Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-02 00:23 +0200
              Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-07-05 00:06 -0700
                Re: The Map Is Not The Territory rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-07-05 10:49 -0700
              Re: The Map Is Not The Territory rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-07-05 10:38 -0700
                Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-06 02:22 +0200
                Re: The Map Is Not The Territory rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-07-05 18:57 -0700
                Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-06 02:13 -0700
                Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-07 01:11 +0200
                Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-07-06 10:58 +0000
                Re: The Map Is Not The Territory rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-07-06 06:00 -0700
                Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-07-06 20:41 -0700
                Re: The Map Is Not The Territory rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-07-07 06:56 -0700
                Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-07-07 21:45 -0700
                Re: The Map Is Not The Territory rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-07-08 15:53 -0700
                Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-07-08 21:08 -0700
                Re: The Map Is Not The Territory rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-07-09 16:32 -0700
              Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2012-07-05 13:22 -0700
            Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-02 01:26 -0700
              Re: The Map Is Not The Territory stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-07-02 10:15 +0000
            Re: The Map Is Not The Territory "Paul E. Bennett" <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2012-07-02 19:28 +0100
  Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-07-01 11:35 +0000
    Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-01 09:31 -0700
      Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-07-01 14:03 -0700
        Re: The Map Is Not The Territory rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-07-01 14:57 -0700
    Re: The Map Is Not The Territory rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-07-01 14:50 -0700

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