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Re: The Map Is Not The Territory

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Howerd wrote:
> I just love the way Chuck created a new Forth (similar to Jeff Fox's
> aha) as a display language to run on some of the 144 cores.
> The way that these cores are used to directly display the machine
> instructions in a different core, via the "BIOS" wire connections -
> surely the combination of hardware and software to route data through
> the 144 cores is new?

No, it's similar to the Transputer, although a little simpler - GA144 
"links" are parallel (Transputer links were serial), and you can execute 
instructions directly.

> I also like the ability to configure a core to run instructions from
> one of it I/O ports - I think this is a new way of running an
> umbilical system, and it makes the inter-core communication possible.
> Probably asynchronous clocking pre-dates synchronous too, but allows
> lower power consumption.

Everyone interested in how you do parallel computing should study the 
Transputer - this is a more then 30 year old design, and it does many 
things similar to what Chuck does now.  I think it also invalidates all 
his patent portfolio claims (transputer had PLLs, they had a fair amount 
of power-saving dynamic stuff, they had on-chip SRAM, they had a stack-
based architecture with multiple sequential instructions packed into one 
word, etc.), but it is probably more expensive to proof that in court 
than the license fee (that's how patent trolls operate).

Chuck certainly has an even further simplified approach, because that's 
what Chuck does: simplify to the min.

>> In so far, as the map is not the territory, I think Chuck used an
>> ancient path and wandered off what makes sense today.
> This logic only works if power consumption is irrelevant - Chuck is
> following a path that happens to minimise power consumption.
> Why does this not make sense today? (Especially for nanobots).

Well, one GA144 core to minimize power makes sense - that's how I 
deployed my b16 - as deeply embedded controller in a small part of a 
chip, doing the more complex digital control and some calculations.

The point of using one of them is that your task doesn't even need the 
computation power of one - the last commercial b16 project I've done 
required 5000 cycles of activity per second.  The only point of using 
144 is to actually do something with them, and not have them sitting 
around idle (having one sitting around idle is ok, since you can't have 
less than one, and "run to finish" is a good strategy to save power).

However, the GA144 is not really good at calculating stuff.  I've been 
critizied here for comparing GPGPUs with the GA144, because a GPGPU 
consumes 100s of watts.  Yes, but it then delivers teraflops.  If you 
scale it down to 0.5W or so (similar power consumption as a GA144), you 
still have several gigaflops - and this is not hypothetical, it's what 
small GPUs like ARM's Mali do.  With easy and fast access to the memory 
necessary for the amount of data you want to process.

> With many of Chuck's discoveries, the whole is greater than the sum of
> its parts - just because many, if not all, of the parts were
> discovered in the latter part of the 20th century (and many by Chuck
> himself) does not mean that the whole is not something startingly new.
> Of course, this is just my 2p - YMMV ;-)

Well, I disagree that Chuck has discovered the PLL or the "fetch 
multiple instructions in a go and exectue them serially", the fact that 
he has and enforces patents on that is just a result of the completely 
broken and laughable patent system.  He doesn't actually get money out 
of that scheme, his patent troll doesn't give him his share.

Chuck's designs are more in the direction of Saint Exuperie - 
"perfection is reached when there's nothing left to take away" - rather 
than traditional engineering achievements, where people add things on 
top of more things.  Keep it simple.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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The Map Is Not The Territory Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2012-06-27 17:44 -0700
  Re: The Map Is Not The Territory dambere@web.de - 2012-06-28 02:32 -0700
    Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-06-28 02:47 -0700
      Re: The Map Is Not The Territory John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-06-28 13:19 -0700
        Re: The Map Is Not The Territory dambere@web.de - 2012-06-29 14:29 -0700
  Re: The Map Is Not The Territory quiet_lad <gavcomedy@gmail.com> - 2012-06-29 14:44 -0700
    Re: The Map Is Not The Territory "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-06-29 12:17 -1000
    Re: The Map Is Not The Territory rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-06-29 16:15 -0700
  Re: The Map Is Not The Territory quiet_lad <gavcomedy@gmail.com> - 2012-06-29 14:43 -0700
    Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2012-06-30 10:46 -0700
      Re: The Map Is Not The Territory rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-06-30 19:54 -0700
        Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-01 09:14 -0700
          Re: The Map Is Not The Territory rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-07-01 14:12 -0700
        Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-01 20:40 +0200
          Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-01 12:15 -0700
            Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-01 23:52 +0200
          Re: The Map Is Not The Territory rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-07-01 14:41 -0700
            Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-02 00:23 +0200
              Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-07-05 00:06 -0700
                Re: The Map Is Not The Territory rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-07-05 10:49 -0700
              Re: The Map Is Not The Territory rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-07-05 10:38 -0700
                Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-06 02:22 +0200
                Re: The Map Is Not The Territory rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-07-05 18:57 -0700
                Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-06 02:13 -0700
                Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-07 01:11 +0200
                Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-07-06 10:58 +0000
                Re: The Map Is Not The Territory rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-07-06 06:00 -0700
                Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-07-06 20:41 -0700
                Re: The Map Is Not The Territory rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-07-07 06:56 -0700
                Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-07-07 21:45 -0700
                Re: The Map Is Not The Territory rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-07-08 15:53 -0700
                Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-07-08 21:08 -0700
                Re: The Map Is Not The Territory rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-07-09 16:32 -0700
              Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2012-07-05 13:22 -0700
            Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-02 01:26 -0700
              Re: The Map Is Not The Territory stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-07-02 10:15 +0000
            Re: The Map Is Not The Territory "Paul E. Bennett" <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2012-07-02 19:28 +0100
  Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-07-01 11:35 +0000
    Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-01 09:31 -0700
      Re: The Map Is Not The Territory Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-07-01 14:03 -0700
        Re: The Map Is Not The Territory rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-07-01 14:57 -0700
    Re: The Map Is Not The Territory rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2012-07-01 14:50 -0700

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