Re: Coroutines in Forth

Date	2026-04-12 12:49 +1000
Subject	Re: Coroutines in Forth
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
References	<10qunhm$1nnbt$1@dont-email.me> <10r1825$2d8j6$1@dont-email.me> <nnd$7d2e6a4e$3bd4aa4f@294189cda32d8f1f> <nnd$5fbdae9b$6428335d@7ddbf5ece7eb9625> <nnd$4d4782db$73d0020c@69cc4648be712fe3>
From	dxf <dxforth@gmail.com>
Message-ID	<69db0856$1@news.ausics.net> (permalink)
Organization	Ausics - https://newsgroups.ausics.net

Show all headers | View raw

On 12/04/2026 6:03 am, albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl wrote:
> In article <nnd$5fbdae9b$6428335d@7ddbf5ece7eb9625>,
> Hans Bezemer  <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 07-04-2026 13:35, albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl wrote:
>>> A similar situation applies to "TO must scan". It turns out there
>>> is no standard program that can detect this. It steers implementation
>>> towards a scanning TO.
>>
>> Frankly, I consider VALUE one of these Forth errors we never got rid of.
>> Why, you ask? Because every name basically returns a pointer - unless we
>> DOES> something different.
>>
>> Sure, you can have different ways to store a value, but a parsing word?
>> Really? And all of a sudden it should do different things depending on
>> type? Yuk!
>>
>> Personally, I do VALUE and TO. But only for VALUE. And the compiler
>> figures out what the most optimal way of handling this retrieval or
>> assignment is. Is the address known at compile time, we handle it like a
>> VALUE, otherwise like a VARIABLE.
>>
>> And yeah, we have FTO and 2TO. I don't like it - but I like some
>> smart@$$ "TO" even less. What a waste of code.. And what a horrible design.
> 
> In ciforth you can do this:
> Prefixes ("recognizers") are supposed to be parsing the remainder
> lf tne word, like $DEADBEAT
> 
> Abuse follows.
> 
> \ In the minimal wordlist, not masking regular @ !
> 'ONLY >WID CURRENT !
> : @ NAME EVALUATE @ ; PREFIX IMMEDIATE
> : ! NAME EVALUATE ! ; PREFIX IMMEDIATE
> DEFINITINS  \ Snap back.
> 
> VARIABLE AAP
> 12 !AAP
> @AAP .
> 12 OK
> 13 !AAP
> @AAP .
> 13 OK
> 
> Just saying.
> 
> (I don't recommend this, by the way.)

AFAICT the majority of HLL's use 'self-fetching' variables.  Setting a
variable required something like := which corresponds to forth's TO.
IMO local variables in forth was less about 'stack juggling' than
simulating the 'look and feel' code of other languages.  Forth locals
code uses a fair number of TO's.  Hugh once suggested locals ought to
have used @ ! .  This would have been very forth-like - but completely
misses what locals aficionados were trying to do!

For me at least, VALUEs are an 'almost CONSTANT' in which TO rarely gets
used.  Without that distinction I'd find it hard justifying VALUEs - or
indeed know when to use them.  By clearly stating their intent and usage,
they provide semantic value to written code and the language in general.
But I'm not sure ANS ever did say - leaving users to muddle it out for
themselves.  Locals' use of 'values' and TO only muddied the waters.

Back to comp.lang.forth | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar

Thread

Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-05 23:25 +0100
  Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-05 23:30 +0100
    Re: Coroutines in Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-05 17:16 -0700
      Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-06 19:58 +0100
        Re: Coroutines in Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-22 11:13 -0700
          Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-22 22:05 +0200
      Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-07 13:23 +0200
  Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-06 13:51 +0200
    Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-06 22:20 +0100
      Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-07 13:35 +0200
        Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-07 20:55 +0100
          Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-08 12:34 +0200
            Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-08 12:32 +0100
          Re: Coroutines in Forth Stephen Pelc <stephen@vfxforth.com> - 2026-04-09 10:12 +0000
        Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-10 19:01 +0200
          Re: Coroutines in Forth dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-11 11:54 +1000
            Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 13:07 +0200
          Re: Coroutines in Forth peter <peter.noreply@tin.it> - 2026-04-11 09:49 +0200
          Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-11 22:03 +0200
            Re: Coroutines in Forth dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 12:49 +1000
              Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-12 12:13 +0200
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 17:39 +0200
                Re: Coroutines in Forth dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-13 10:54 +1000
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-13 19:24 +0200
              Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 13:48 +0200
              Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-13 12:13 +0200
              Re: Coroutines in Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-22 11:18 -0700
                Re: Coroutines in Forth dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-23 11:13 +1000
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-23 12:37 +0200
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-24 10:36 -0700
                Re: Coroutines in Forth dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-25 12:12 +1000
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-24 23:31 -0700
                Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-25 10:45 +0200
                Re: Coroutines in Forth dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-25 22:06 +1000
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-25 15:11 +0200
                Re: Coroutines in Forth dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-26 13:33 +1000
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-26 16:28 +0200
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-25 21:46 -0700
                FP stack depth limitations (was: Coroutines in Forth) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-26 05:55 +0000
                Re: FP stack depth limitations Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-26 00:28 -0700
                Re: FP stack depth limitations dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-26 19:55 +1000
                Re: FP stack depth limitations (was: Coroutines in Forth) peter <peter.noreply@tin.it> - 2026-04-26 09:57 +0200
                Re: FP stack depth limitations (was: Coroutines in Forth) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-26 14:34 +0200
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-25 15:01 +0200
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-05-01 13:13 +0200
                Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues (was: Coroutines in Forth) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-25 05:26 +0000
                Re: Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-24 23:55 -0700
                Re: Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-25 08:21 +0000
                Re: Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-25 11:27 +0200
                Re: Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-25 15:43 +0200
                Re: Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-25 17:21 +0000
                Re: Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-26 15:21 +1000
                Re: Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-26 15:08 +0200
                Re: Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-26 00:34 +0200
                Re: Forth, C, hardware, and programming virtues Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-26 15:10 +0200
                locals (was: Coroutines in Forth) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-25 04:47 +0000
                Re: locals Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-24 23:21 -0700
                Re: locals anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-25 06:43 +0000
                Re: locals albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-25 11:43 +0200
                Re: locals anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-25 10:22 +0000
                Re: locals peter <peter.noreply@tin.it> - 2026-04-25 16:07 +0200
                Re: locals Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-25 17:38 +0200
                Re: locals albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-26 01:13 +0200
                Re: locals anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-26 14:03 +0000
                Re: locals peter <peter.noreply@tin.it> - 2026-04-27 09:31 +0200
                Re: locals anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-27 07:53 +0000
                Re: locals peter <peter.noreply@tin.it> - 2026-04-27 11:52 +0200
                Re: locals albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-26 00:51 +0200
                Re: locals Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-04-25 22:40 -0700
                Re: locals albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-26 14:55 +0200
                Re: locals anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-26 09:50 +0000
                Re: locals Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-26 16:22 +0200
                Re: locals anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-26 17:04 +0000
                Re: locals dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-27 11:51 +1000
                Re: locals Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 08:21 +0200
                Re: locals Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 08:22 +0200
                Re: locals dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-04-27 11:12 +1000
                Re: locals Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 14:34 +0200
                Re: locals Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 14:34 +0200
                Re: locals Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-29 12:44 +0100
                Re: locals Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-29 14:37 +0200
                Re: locals Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-29 14:44 +0200
                Re: locals Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-05-01 23:50 -0700
                Re: locals anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-02 10:34 +0000
                Re: locals Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-05-01 23:54 -0700
                Re: locals dxf <dxforth@gmail.com> - 2026-05-02 17:36 +1000
                Re: locals Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-05-02 01:11 -0700
                Re: locals anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-05-02 15:58 +0000
      Re: Coroutines in Forth Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-04-07 09:28 -0500
        Re: Coroutines in Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-04-07 16:12 +0000
          Re: Coroutines in Forth Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-04-07 18:06 -0500
          Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-08 11:43 +0100
            Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-08 13:16 +0200
              Re: Coroutines in Forth Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-04-08 11:47 -0500
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-08 21:48 +0100
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-04-09 07:06 -0500
                Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-09 16:41 +0200
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-04-09 13:34 -0500
                Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-10 01:23 +0200
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-04-09 21:34 -0500
                Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-09 13:01 +0200
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-04-09 07:01 -0500
                Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-09 16:10 +0200
                Re: Coroutines in Forth Krishna Myneni <krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org> - 2026-04-09 13:29 -0500
              Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-08 21:26 +0100
          Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-08 14:22 +0200
          Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-28 15:31 +0200
            Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-29 10:49 +0200
              Re: Coroutines in Forth Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2026-04-29 15:22 +0200
        Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-08 11:33 +0100
          Re: Coroutines in Forth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-04-08 13:07 +0200
            Re: Coroutines in Forth Gerry Jackson <do-not-use@swldwa.uk> - 2026-04-08 22:05 +0100

csiph-web