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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #21209

Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all?

Date 2013-03-28 08:41 -1000
From "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com>
Organization FORTH, Inc.
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all?
References (8 earlier) <kika1g$heu$1@speranza.aioe.org> <1v285cgumns8o.ksjt8alr76k9$.dlg@40tude.net> <kilh5a$hgk$2@online.de> <kiqvfc$rg5$1@speranza.aioe.org> <kj1665$oql$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID <24Odne2AF55QE8nMnZ2dnUVZ_q2dnZ2d@supernews.com> (permalink)

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On 3/28/13 12:32 AM, Ed wrote:
> Ed wrote:
>> ...
>> I never considered extending the semantics of >BODY.  The issue is
>> whether XT can provide enough information for every object one
>> might wish to apply.  If it can't, then a parsing alternative would be the
>> way to go.
>
> The history of  ' (tick) is both interesting and convoluted.
>
> In early Forths (and Forth-79) tick returned the *parameter* field address.
> And in PolyForth this address was also the argument used by EXECUTE.
> Thus in PolyForth tick served a dual function.  Very neat.
>
> When Forth-83 came out  tick  referenced a different address - the
> "compilation address".  To supply the missing functionality they added
> a conversion word  >BODY.  The assumption being that going from
> compilation address to parameter field address was a simple translation.

This was particularly annoying since in the first of the two meetings 
that developed Forth83 the group voted for ' to return the PFA, and at 
the second voted to change it to the CFA, despite the fact that FORTH, 
Inc. and other implementors had, in good faith, implemented the first 
requirement. FORTH, Inc. elected not to change (having just completed an 
extensive product upgrade intended to be Forth83 compliant), so 
polyFORTH was never entirely Forth83-compatible as regards this and a 
few other issues.

> By Forth-94 all bets were off.  Compilation address became "execution
> token" and >BODY was relegated to CREATEd words.

That was partly an attempt to arrive at a compromise to resolve the 
issue, by allowing systems to retain whatever practice they preferred in 
regard to what ' returned.

However, there was a more important issue: in the days of Forth83, the 
content of most definitions was specified, including the content of 
colon definitions. Everything used 16-bit cells, and colon definitions 
contained addresses of words. The decision to allow other implementation 
strategies, in the interest of improved performance and other benefits, 
rendered the content of most words completely implementation-dependent. 
As a result, the definition of an xt (something returned by ' or ['] and 
consumed by EXECUTE) and the limitations on >BODY (to words defined by 
CREATE) became necessary.

> So now we come full circle and Forth implementations are again looking
> at a parsing word like the old tick which can return the parameter field
> address of objects.
>
> How weird is that.

I still don't see how it could be useful without constraining the 
content of objects.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

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Thread

Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-20 01:03 +0000
  Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-20 02:18 +0100
    Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-03-20 13:58 +1100
      Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-19 23:59 -0700
        Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-03-21 23:17 +1100
          Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-21 07:27 -0500
            Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Sieur de Bienville <morrimichael@gmail.com> - 2013-03-21 07:01 -0700
              Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-21 09:14 -0500
                DEFER@ (was: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all?) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-21 17:31 +0000
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Sieur de Bienville <morrimichael@gmail.com> - 2013-03-22 14:30 -0700
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-23 05:34 -0500
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-03-25 09:44 -0700
            Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-03-22 01:30 +1100
              Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-21 08:17 -0700
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-03-22 12:14 +1100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-22 03:33 -0700
              Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-21 15:15 -0500
      Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-22 00:24 +0100
        Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-03-22 11:49 +1100
          Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-22 04:22 -0700
          Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-22 22:38 +0100
            Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-03-23 21:37 +1100
              Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-23 05:06 -0700
              Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-23 13:18 +0100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-03-24 00:17 +1100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-23 15:10 +0100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-24 01:25 +0100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-03-26 12:55 +1100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-26 05:51 -0500
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-03-28 23:31 +1100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-28 12:57 +0000
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-28 08:15 -0500
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-03-30 12:56 +1100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-30 04:56 -0500
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-30 10:32 +0000
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-04-04 12:36 +1000
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-28 17:39 +0000
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-03-28 21:32 +1100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-28 11:58 +0000
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-03-29 00:59 +1100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-28 08:41 -1000
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-03-30 12:43 +1100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-27 17:15 +0000
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-27 22:04 +0100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-28 12:17 +0000
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-03-26 13:13 +1100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-24 01:21 +0100
    Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-20 00:01 -0700
      Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-19 22:02 -1000
  Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-20 05:27 -0400
    Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-20 10:27 +0000
      Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-20 03:23 -0700
        Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-20 17:22 +0000
      Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-20 07:52 -1000
        Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-03-20 18:56 +0000
        OT: SF-translations Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-20 21:44 +0000
          Re: OT: SF-translations Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-20 23:12 +0100
            Re: OT: SF-translations Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-20 22:45 +0000
              Re: OT: SF-translations Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-21 15:50 +0100
          Re: OT: SF-translations "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-20 12:38 -1000
        Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-21 05:52 -0400
          Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-21 10:08 +0000
          Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-21 08:17 -1000
            Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-21 18:46 +0000
            Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-03-21 20:20 +0200
              Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-03-22 08:41 -0700
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2013-03-22 09:03 -0700
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-22 08:05 -1000
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-22 22:17 +0100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-23 12:07 +0000
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-24 01:40 +0100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-24 03:55 -0500
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-24 12:18 +0000
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-24 06:04 -0700
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-24 15:31 +0100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-23 02:26 +0000
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-22 17:39 -1000
      Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-20 19:18 +0100
        Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-21 16:18 +0000
          Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-22 00:34 +0100
            Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-21 23:54 +0000
              Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-22 00:54 +0100
              Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-21 14:37 -1000
    Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-20 04:48 -0700
      Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-21 05:43 -0400
        Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-21 08:30 -0700
          Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-22 03:31 -0400
            Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-21 22:07 -1000
            Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-22 03:37 -0700
    Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-20 17:14 +0000

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