Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all?

From	anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all?
Date	2013-03-27 17:15 +0000
Organization	Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Message-ID	<2013Mar27.181543@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> (permalink)
References	(6 earlier) <kik0k7$oak$1@speranza.aioe.org> <14pic01p6477g.45rbx7d8spmr$.dlg@40tude.net> <kika1g$heu$1@speranza.aioe.org> <1v285cgumns8o.ksjt8alr76k9$.dlg@40tude.net> <kilh5a$hgk$2@online.de>

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Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> writes:
>Coos Haak wrote:
>
>> Op Sun, 24 Mar 2013 00:17:41 +1100 schreef Ed:
>> It's not my mistake if some compiler uses a jump for implementing DEFER.
>> DEFER@/DEFER! can handle that. >BODY @ and >BODY ! can't. Besides DEFER@
>> and DEFER! are portable. Inside the standard or outside the standard.
>
>Ed's point is that a particular (and rare) optimization of DEFER requiers 
>adding two words instead of adding an entitlement to >BODY.  I'm with Ed 
>here: adding an entitlement to >BODY is easier to learn, and for very simple 
>systems, it is also much easier to implement - their >BODY gave that 
>entitlement all the time.

Sure, implementing nothing is very easy, but, on these systems,
implementing DEFER@ and DEFER! ist also easy:

: defer@ >body @ ;
: defer! >body ! ;

Concerning easier to learn, one could argue either way.

In any case, for Forth 200x this issue has been decided.  It's water
down the river.  But if you really want to revise it, go ahead and
propose the additional entitlement for >BODY.  If this goes through,
you could propose making DEFER@ and DEFER! obsolescent, and in Forth
21xx, we would remove them:-).

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2013: http://www.euroforth.org/ef13/

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Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-20 01:03 +0000
  Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-20 02:18 +0100
    Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-03-20 13:58 +1100
      Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-19 23:59 -0700
        Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-03-21 23:17 +1100
          Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-21 07:27 -0500
            Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Sieur de Bienville <morrimichael@gmail.com> - 2013-03-21 07:01 -0700
              Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-21 09:14 -0500
                DEFER@ (was: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all?) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-21 17:31 +0000
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Sieur de Bienville <morrimichael@gmail.com> - 2013-03-22 14:30 -0700
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-23 05:34 -0500
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-03-25 09:44 -0700
            Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-03-22 01:30 +1100
              Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-21 08:17 -0700
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-03-22 12:14 +1100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-22 03:33 -0700
              Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-21 15:15 -0500
      Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-22 00:24 +0100
        Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-03-22 11:49 +1100
          Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-22 04:22 -0700
          Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-22 22:38 +0100
            Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-03-23 21:37 +1100
              Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-23 05:06 -0700
              Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-23 13:18 +0100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-03-24 00:17 +1100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-23 15:10 +0100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-24 01:25 +0100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-03-26 12:55 +1100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-26 05:51 -0500
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-03-28 23:31 +1100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-28 12:57 +0000
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-28 08:15 -0500
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-03-30 12:56 +1100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-30 04:56 -0500
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-30 10:32 +0000
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-04-04 12:36 +1000
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-28 17:39 +0000
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-03-28 21:32 +1100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-28 11:58 +0000
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-03-29 00:59 +1100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-28 08:41 -1000
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-03-30 12:43 +1100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-27 17:15 +0000
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-27 22:04 +0100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-28 12:17 +0000
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2013-03-26 13:13 +1100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-24 01:21 +0100
    Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-20 00:01 -0700
      Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-19 22:02 -1000
  Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-20 05:27 -0400
    Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-20 10:27 +0000
      Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-03-20 03:23 -0700
        Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-20 17:22 +0000
      Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-20 07:52 -1000
        Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2013-03-20 18:56 +0000
        OT: SF-translations Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-20 21:44 +0000
          Re: OT: SF-translations Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-20 23:12 +0100
            Re: OT: SF-translations Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-20 22:45 +0000
              Re: OT: SF-translations Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-21 15:50 +0100
          Re: OT: SF-translations "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-20 12:38 -1000
        Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-21 05:52 -0400
          Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-21 10:08 +0000
          Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-21 08:17 -1000
            Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-21 18:46 +0000
            Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2013-03-21 20:20 +0200
              Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-03-22 08:41 -0700
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2013-03-22 09:03 -0700
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-22 08:05 -1000
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-22 22:17 +0100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-03-23 12:07 +0000
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-24 01:40 +0100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-03-24 03:55 -0500
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-03-24 12:18 +0000
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-24 06:04 -0700
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-03-24 15:31 +0100
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-23 02:26 +0000
                Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-22 17:39 -1000
      Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-20 19:18 +0100
        Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-21 16:18 +0000
          Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-22 00:34 +0100
            Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Zbiggy <zbigniew2011REMOVE@gmail.REMOVE.com> - 2013-03-21 23:54 +0000
              Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-03-22 00:54 +0100
              Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-21 14:37 -1000
    Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-20 04:48 -0700
      Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-21 05:43 -0400
        Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-21 08:30 -0700
          Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-03-22 03:31 -0400
            Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-03-21 22:07 -1000
            Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-03-22 03:37 -0700
    Re: Can i rely on >BODY for anything at all? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-03-20 17:14 +0000

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