Re: Adding thousands separators

From	anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: Adding thousands separators
Date	2012-02-23 13:13 +0000
Organization	Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Message-ID	<2012Feb23.141344@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> (permalink)
References	(1 earlier) <kPKdnRbuEfWafN7SnZ2dnUVZ_vednZ2d@supernews.com> <1c0e70b2-978b-4c61-9bc8-848883b587c0@i18g2000yqf.googlegroups.com> <ji1h8d$qe1$1@news-01.bur.connect.com.au> <2012Feb22.110858@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <yqGdnRkT_eGHpNjSnZ2dnUVZ_hqdnZ2d@supernews.com>

Show all headers | View raw

"Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> writes:
>On 2/22/12 12:08 AM, Anton Ertl wrote:
>> Yes, I think we should standardize 2s-complement machines and the
>> various properties that they have.  If anyone ever does a Forth for a
>> non-2s-complement machine, it would have some environmental
>> restrictions.
>
>Well, that's one approach, but it's pretty easy to document your code as 
>dependent on 2's complement arithmetic and not worry about it further. 

Well, that code is not dependent on 2s-complement arithmetic, but on
some properties that Forth systems on 2s-complement machines tend to
have, but others maybe not (and these properties are not guaranteed on
2s-complement machines, either).

>I truly don't understand why everyone is so allergic to declaring 
>dependencies, as though it were a mark of shame.

Well, Ed actually did declare a dependency, it just was not the right
dependency.  That's one reason for standardizing instead of just
declaring: Standards tend to be more precise than individual
declarations.

Also the standardization question is not about allergies, but about
common practice.  And Forth systems on 2s-complement machines, with
properties such as the one that Ed depended on, but did not declare,
are not just common, but universal practice.  And Forth programs
relying on such properties are pretty common, too.

In particular, for such universal and widely-used properties, why
should it be a good idea to burden the programmers with the
requirement to declare dependencies on them, in many programs, instead
of just documenting them just once in the standard.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2011: http://www.euroforth.org/ef11/

Thread

Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-02-13 21:24 +1100
  Re: Adding thousands separators Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-02-13 13:05 -0800
    Re: Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-02-16 10:19 +1100
  Re: Adding thousands separators Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 08:48 +0100
    Re: Adding thousands separators Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-02-23 22:46 -0800
      Re: Adding thousands separators "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-02-24 08:07 +0100
      Re: Adding thousands separators Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2012-02-24 15:00 +0100
        Re: Adding thousands separators "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-02-24 08:29 -1000
          Re: Adding thousands separators Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2012-02-25 00:11 +0100
        Re: Adding thousands separators Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-02-27 23:28 -0800
          Re: Adding thousands separators Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-02-28 01:37 -0800
            Re: Adding thousands separators Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2012-02-28 15:06 +0200
          Re: Adding thousands separators Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2012-02-29 09:29 +0100
            Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-02-29 03:00 -0600
              Re: Adding thousands separators The Beez <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2012-02-29 03:44 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-02-29 11:19 -0600
            Re: Adding thousands separators hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2012-02-29 22:48 -0800
              Re: Adding thousands separators Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2012-03-01 08:38 +0100
                Re: Adding thousands separators Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-03-01 00:57 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2012-03-01 18:23 +0100
                Re: Adding thousands separators John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-03-01 17:22 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-03-01 18:00 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-03-01 22:14 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-03-02 06:58 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-03-02 11:07 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-03-02 13:13 -0600
                Re: Adding thousands separators John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-03-02 11:25 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-03-03 11:00 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-03-03 03:17 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-03-03 12:30 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-03-03 11:39 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-03-06 16:31 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-03-03 15:52 +0200
                Re: Adding thousands separators Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2012-03-03 16:23 +0100
                Re: Adding thousands separators Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-03-03 10:19 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-03-03 12:35 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-03-03 11:02 -0600
                Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-03-03 17:25 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-03-03 10:14 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-03-03 14:14 -0600
                Re: Adding thousands separators Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-03-03 14:52 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-03-04 03:39 -0600
                Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-03-04 15:02 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-03-03 14:11 -0600
                Re: Adding thousands separators Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-03-03 23:49 +0100
                Re: Adding thousands separators Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-03-03 15:50 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-03-04 15:38 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-03-04 18:08 +0100
                Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-03-04 11:20 -0600
                Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-03-04 17:45 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-03-04 23:50 +0100
                Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-03-05 14:39 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-03-06 13:01 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-03-12 16:05 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-03-03 15:45 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-03-03 17:56 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-03-05 15:41 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-03-06 11:27 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-03-03 11:01 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-03-02 05:53 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-03-03 01:49 +0100
      Re: Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-02-29 17:20 +1100
        Re: Adding thousands separators "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-02-29 07:51 +0100
        Re: Adding thousands separators hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2012-02-29 21:26 -0800
          Re: Adding thousands separators "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2012-03-03 03:45 +0000
          Re: Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-03-04 20:49 +1100
            Re: Adding thousands separators Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2012-03-04 15:16 +0100
              Re: Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-03-06 15:06 +1100
                Re: Adding thousands separators Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2012-03-06 08:32 +0100
            Re: Adding thousands separators Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-03-05 15:06 -0800
              Re: Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-03-06 15:03 +1100
              Re: Adding thousands separators hwfwguy@gmail.com - 2012-03-06 20:29 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-03-06 23:18 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-03-07 06:07 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators hwfwguy@gmail.com - 2012-03-07 06:36 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-03-07 16:19 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-03-08 10:51 +0000
  Re: Adding thousands separators Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 20:18 -0500
    Re: Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-02-17 12:29 +1100
      Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-17 09:42 -0800
        Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-02-20 15:24 +0000
          Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-20 20:41 -0800
            Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-02-21 16:46 +0000
              Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-02-21 12:23 -0600
                Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-21 11:32 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-02-22 12:46 +1100
                Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-02-22 10:08 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-02-22 08:51 -1000
                Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-22 14:28 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-02-23 13:13 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-02-24 14:32 +1100
                Re: Adding thousands separators "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-02-23 19:53 -1000
                Re: Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-03-03 12:47 +1100
                Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-03-02 22:26 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Jan Coombs <jan_2011-02@murray-microft.co.uk> - 2012-03-03 14:32 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-03-04 21:31 +1100
                Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-03-04 10:07 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-03-06 15:31 +1100
                Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-03-05 22:26 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Josh Grams <josh@qualdan.com> - 2012-03-06 12:32 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-24 05:04 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-02-24 08:30 -1000
                Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-02-22 04:28 -0600
                Re: Adding thousands separators stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-02-22 14:59 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-02-22 18:05 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-22 07:49 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-02-22 12:46 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-22 18:24 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-02-24 13:23 +1100
              Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-21 11:29 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-02-22 09:56 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-22 07:37 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-02-22 10:30 -0600
                Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-02-22 16:24 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators Brad <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2012-02-23 07:44 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-02-23 17:54 +0100
                Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-02-23 16:51 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-02-23 11:49 -0600
                Re: Adding thousands separators Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-02-23 13:26 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-02-23 15:58 -0600
                Re: Adding thousands separators Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-02-26 02:25 +0100
                Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-02-26 03:24 -0600
                Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-02-26 13:40 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-02-26 11:06 -0600
                Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-23 15:02 -0800
  Re: Adding thousands separators Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-02-16 13:21 -0500
  Re: Adding thousands separators Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-02-16 20:44 -0800
    Re: Adding thousands separators Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2012-02-17 21:32 +0100
  Re: Adding thousands separators "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-02-17 22:41 +0100
    Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-17 18:52 -0800
      Re: Adding thousands separators "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-02-18 10:39 +0100
        Re: Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-02-18 21:22 +1100
          Re: Adding thousands separators "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-02-18 13:12 +0100
            Re: Adding thousands separators "Peter Knaggs" <pjk@bcs.org.uk> - 2012-02-18 16:30 +0000
              Re: Adding thousands separators Jan Coombs <jan_2011-02@murray-microft.co.uk> - 2012-02-18 17:08 +0000
              Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-18 14:46 -0800
            Re: Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-03-04 20:47 +1100
  Re: Adding thousands separators Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-02-28 17:03 -0800
  Re: Adding thousands separators "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2012-03-01 18:13 +0000
    Re: Adding thousands separators Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-03-01 12:46 -0800
  Re: Adding thousands separators "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2012-03-01 18:52 +0000

csiph-web