Re: Adding thousands separators

From	hughaguilar96@yahoo.com
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: Adding thousands separators
Date	2012-02-29 21:26 -0800
Organization	http://groups.google.com
Message-ID	<19341185.748.1330579571302.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynjd19> (permalink)
References	<jhao81$cjj$1@news-01.bur.connect.com.au> <4f3b62ef$0$6947$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl> <c29dc977-9744-493d-8d72-99fdd336fdad@c21g2000yqi.googlegroups.com> <jikfuk$9qs$1@news-01.bur.connect.com.au>

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On Tuesday, February 28, 2012 11:20:50 PM UTC-7, Ed wrote:
> Hugh Aguilar wrote:
> >
> > The guy's code was not clean. He is dismantling one string to make
> > another string. What??? I just wrote a typical picture-number function
> > that takes a double and generates a string using # and HOLD and all
> > that.
> 
> Nothing wrong with processing strings.  

Processing strings representing numbers is a messy way to process numbers. For one thing, you get into a lot of error-checking to make sure that the string is in the format that you are expecting --- that it is actually a string representing a number and that it was generated by whatever float>string function that you are assuming that it was generated by.

It is very bad design to write a function that depends upon getting input which is the output of specific other functions. That is a DEPENDENCY (a bad thing). What happens if that other function gets modified, and now this function that depends upon it stops working because it is being given bad input?

Especially bad is that you don't tell us what function is generating these strings that you are working with, so we don't know what we are dependent upon. You mentioned (D.) and (F.) but those aren't standard functions, and you are not providing the source-code for them. There are myriad ways that strings representing numbers could be generated --- does your code support cases in which there is no decimal point, for example?

> The application was intended
> to convert string output from my floating-point package.  Were integers
> my only consideration the following would have sufficed:
> 
> \ Comma formatted numeric output
> \ Adapted from code by C.Curley FD15/5
> 
> \ like #S but inserts commas after each 3 digits
> : #,S ( ud -- 0. )
>   0  begin  >r  # 2dup or  while
>     r> 1+  dup 3 = if  [char] , hold  drop 0 then
>   repeat  r> drop ;

That is pretty good code. 

I think that it is a good idea to have a function that works with doubles and another function that works with floats. Remember the "universal processor" cartoon in the "Thinking Forth" book? Avoid writing overly general functions --- "Let the dictionary do the deciding."

> > Also, he wrote a really long
> > function that badly needed factoring. This is very novice-level Forth.
> > If you guys were the experts that you claim to be, you would be
> > helping him to improve his Forth. Instead the Beez congratulates him
> > on his "clean" code and says that it qualifies for inclusion in the
> > 4TH compiler, and the whole crowd immediately launches into a
> > discussion of ones-complement arithmetic. What??? The poor guy is not
> > going to learn anything about Forth from you guys --- I predict that
> > he is going to drop Forth pretty soon, just like everybody else who
> > tries to learn it.
> 
> A novice after 25 years!  If being a novice means there is still
> something I can learn, well that sounds like a good thing.  

Sorry; I didn't know that you had been a Forther for 25 years. I just assumed that you were a novice because your code was badly designed and badly factored, and you were presenting a trivial function all by itself for us to look at and comment on. Try writing something comparable to my novice package to convince us that you are an expert --- a single tiny function doesn't make much of a blip on the radar screen (I've already spent more time on this thread than the amount of time that I spent writing BIG.).

> Better
> to be a novice than an "expert" who's constantly in fear of being
> upstaged.  Personally I can't think of anything more exciting than
> to discover something which I had believed to be true, turns out
> false.  The trick is to never hitch one's wagon to anything so
> permanently that it destroys one when the time comes to let it go.
> For me, Forth is just such a thing.

All of this inspirational talk is nonsense. The ANS-Forth standard was a complete failure. It should have standardized basic code such as the conversion of floats to strings.  It is ridiculous that the Forth application programmers should have to write code like this ourselves (especially in the year 2012).

Writing a program that generates an ascii file containing numeric data seems like a pretty common and mundane job. In any other language it would be easy. In AMS-Forth, the programmer is required to write his own function to convert a float into a string. Writing a program in ANS-Forth is somewhat like building a cabin using only an axe, just like the pioneers did in the 1800s. You know, this might be the reason why ANS-Forth did not become popular for application programming --- do you think? 

But hey --- it is only 2012, so it is not too late for us to finally write some code to convert floats into strings (actually I wrote SCIENTIFIC and ENGINEERING in 2010, but nobody noticed so we are still dinking around with this stuff in 2012).

Thread

Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-02-13 21:24 +1100
  Re: Adding thousands separators Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-02-13 13:05 -0800
    Re: Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-02-16 10:19 +1100
  Re: Adding thousands separators Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 08:48 +0100
    Re: Adding thousands separators Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-02-23 22:46 -0800
      Re: Adding thousands separators "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-02-24 08:07 +0100
      Re: Adding thousands separators Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2012-02-24 15:00 +0100
        Re: Adding thousands separators "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-02-24 08:29 -1000
          Re: Adding thousands separators Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2012-02-25 00:11 +0100
        Re: Adding thousands separators Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-02-27 23:28 -0800
          Re: Adding thousands separators Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-02-28 01:37 -0800
            Re: Adding thousands separators Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2012-02-28 15:06 +0200
          Re: Adding thousands separators Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2012-02-29 09:29 +0100
            Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-02-29 03:00 -0600
              Re: Adding thousands separators The Beez <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2012-02-29 03:44 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-02-29 11:19 -0600
            Re: Adding thousands separators hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2012-02-29 22:48 -0800
              Re: Adding thousands separators Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2012-03-01 08:38 +0100
                Re: Adding thousands separators Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-03-01 00:57 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2012-03-01 18:23 +0100
                Re: Adding thousands separators John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-03-01 17:22 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-03-01 18:00 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-03-01 22:14 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-03-02 06:58 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-03-02 11:07 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-03-02 13:13 -0600
                Re: Adding thousands separators John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-03-02 11:25 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-03-03 11:00 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-03-03 03:17 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-03-03 12:30 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-03-03 11:39 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-03-06 16:31 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-03-03 15:52 +0200
                Re: Adding thousands separators Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2012-03-03 16:23 +0100
                Re: Adding thousands separators Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-03-03 10:19 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-03-03 12:35 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-03-03 11:02 -0600
                Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-03-03 17:25 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-03-03 10:14 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-03-03 14:14 -0600
                Re: Adding thousands separators Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-03-03 14:52 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-03-04 03:39 -0600
                Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-03-04 15:02 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-03-03 14:11 -0600
                Re: Adding thousands separators Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-03-03 23:49 +0100
                Re: Adding thousands separators Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-03-03 15:50 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-03-04 15:38 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-03-04 18:08 +0100
                Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-03-04 11:20 -0600
                Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-03-04 17:45 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-03-04 23:50 +0100
                Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-03-05 14:39 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-03-06 13:01 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-03-12 16:05 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-03-03 15:45 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-03-03 17:56 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-03-05 15:41 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-03-06 11:27 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-03-03 11:01 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-03-02 05:53 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-03-03 01:49 +0100
      Re: Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-02-29 17:20 +1100
        Re: Adding thousands separators "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-02-29 07:51 +0100
        Re: Adding thousands separators hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2012-02-29 21:26 -0800
          Re: Adding thousands separators "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2012-03-03 03:45 +0000
          Re: Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-03-04 20:49 +1100
            Re: Adding thousands separators Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2012-03-04 15:16 +0100
              Re: Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-03-06 15:06 +1100
                Re: Adding thousands separators Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2012-03-06 08:32 +0100
            Re: Adding thousands separators Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-03-05 15:06 -0800
              Re: Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-03-06 15:03 +1100
              Re: Adding thousands separators hwfwguy@gmail.com - 2012-03-06 20:29 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-03-06 23:18 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators John Passaniti <john.passaniti@gmail.com> - 2012-03-07 06:07 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators hwfwguy@gmail.com - 2012-03-07 06:36 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-03-07 16:19 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-03-08 10:51 +0000
  Re: Adding thousands separators Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 20:18 -0500
    Re: Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-02-17 12:29 +1100
      Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-17 09:42 -0800
        Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-02-20 15:24 +0000
          Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-20 20:41 -0800
            Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-02-21 16:46 +0000
              Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-02-21 12:23 -0600
                Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-21 11:32 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-02-22 12:46 +1100
                Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-02-22 10:08 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-02-22 08:51 -1000
                Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-22 14:28 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-02-23 13:13 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-02-24 14:32 +1100
                Re: Adding thousands separators "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-02-23 19:53 -1000
                Re: Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-03-03 12:47 +1100
                Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-03-02 22:26 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Jan Coombs <jan_2011-02@murray-microft.co.uk> - 2012-03-03 14:32 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-03-04 21:31 +1100
                Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-03-04 10:07 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-03-06 15:31 +1100
                Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-03-05 22:26 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Josh Grams <josh@qualdan.com> - 2012-03-06 12:32 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-24 05:04 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-02-24 08:30 -1000
                Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-02-22 04:28 -0600
                Re: Adding thousands separators stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-02-22 14:59 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-02-22 18:05 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-22 07:49 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-02-22 12:46 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-22 18:24 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-02-24 13:23 +1100
              Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-21 11:29 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-02-22 09:56 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-22 07:37 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-02-22 10:30 -0600
                Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-02-22 16:24 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators Brad <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2012-02-23 07:44 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-02-23 17:54 +0100
                Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-02-23 16:51 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-02-23 11:49 -0600
                Re: Adding thousands separators Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-02-23 13:26 -0800
                Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-02-23 15:58 -0600
                Re: Adding thousands separators Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-02-26 02:25 +0100
                Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-02-26 03:24 -0600
                Re: Adding thousands separators anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-02-26 13:40 +0000
                Re: Adding thousands separators Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-02-26 11:06 -0600
                Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-23 15:02 -0800
  Re: Adding thousands separators Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-02-16 13:21 -0500
  Re: Adding thousands separators Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-02-16 20:44 -0800
    Re: Adding thousands separators Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2012-02-17 21:32 +0100
  Re: Adding thousands separators "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-02-17 22:41 +0100
    Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-17 18:52 -0800
      Re: Adding thousands separators "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-02-18 10:39 +0100
        Re: Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-02-18 21:22 +1100
          Re: Adding thousands separators "A. K." <akk@nospam.org> - 2012-02-18 13:12 +0100
            Re: Adding thousands separators "Peter Knaggs" <pjk@bcs.org.uk> - 2012-02-18 16:30 +0000
              Re: Adding thousands separators Jan Coombs <jan_2011-02@murray-microft.co.uk> - 2012-02-18 17:08 +0000
              Re: Adding thousands separators BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-02-18 14:46 -0800
            Re: Adding thousands separators "Ed" <nospam@invalid.com> - 2012-03-04 20:47 +1100
  Re: Adding thousands separators Hugh Aguilar <hughaguilar96@yahoo.com> - 2012-02-28 17:03 -0800
  Re: Adding thousands separators "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2012-03-01 18:13 +0000
    Re: Adding thousands separators Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-03-01 12:46 -0800
  Re: Adding thousands separators "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2012-03-01 18:52 +0000

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