Re: VHS Tape Collectors

From	felix <felix@real_felix.invalid>
Newsgroups	aus.tv, aus.computers
Subject	Re: VHS Tape Collectors
Date	2017-03-21 11:42 +1100
Message-ID	<ejbb80FqnuqU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(18 earlier) <ej695nFq33cU2@mid.individual.net> <oamriv$84c$1@dont-email.me> <ej8tt2Fbpl4U1@mid.individual.net> <58cf4671$0$11114$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <oapd9m$3kp$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On Tuesday, 21 Mar 2017 7:18 AM, BruceS wrote:
> On 03/19/2017 09:03 PM, Clocky wrote:
>> On 20/03/2017 10:42 AM, felix wrote:
>>> On Monday, 20 Mar 2017 8:04 AM, BruceS wrote:
>>>> On 03/18/2017 08:36 PM, felix wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, 16 Mar 2017 10:52 PM, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>> On 15/03/2017 10:27 PM, Trevor wrote:
>>>>>>> On 15/03/2017 11:45 AM, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 15/03/2017 5:54 AM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Trevor <trevor@home.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 14/03/2017 9:16 AM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> That said, I wouldn't go to the trouble of
>>>>>>>>>>> transferring them all to HDD
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Me either, but only because *very few* are worth the effort
>>>>>>>>>> involved.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (or HDDs, because they have been known to be much less reliable
>>>>>>>>>>> than tapes), so maybe it's a moot point anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No. With digital you can have as many back-ups as needed, and
>>>>>>>>>> transfer
>>>>>>>>>> them as often as necessary without further degradation.
>>>>>>>>>> Something you
>>>>>>>>>> simply cannot do with any analog media.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Having to make backups because the medium itself (Hard Disks) is
>>>>>>>>> less reliable is half of the effort. Especially because some HDD
>>>>>>>>> models of old have been known to "stick" and fail to spin up 
>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>> being left unused for a long time, so I'd have to keep checking
>>>>>>>>> them as well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not only that, but formats, interfaces, operating systems and
>>>>>>>> codecs or
>>>>>>>> become obsolete change which can complicate matters.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Right, and Beta/VHS players will never become obsolete of 
>>>>>>> course. Oh
>>>>>>> wait, they already are!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> How long did that take? The medium remains intact in any event, much
>>>>>> more reliably then digital formats.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Some of my old Backup DVD's and CD's are unreadable after a few
>>>>>>>> years
>>>>>>>> kept in temperature stable dry conditions whilst I have home
>>>>>>>> recorded
>>>>>>>> audio and video cassettes that are 30+ years old kept in less than
>>>>>>>> ideal
>>>>>>>> storage that still work perfectly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I still have some Phillips format video tapes. Try finding a player
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> those now! Also some Umatic tapes. You can find players for those,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> it would be hard to justify the cost!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Try finding a working Zip disk reader,
>>>>>
>>>>> I have several; read and write
>>>>>
>>>>>> floptical or or 2.88mb floppy disk drive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But one thing you should remember is that audio and video data
>>>>>>> files are
>>>>>>> often recoverable where program files would not be. One bit error
>>>>>>> on a
>>>>>>> program and it's toast.
>>>>
>>>> As a software developer, I can tell you that this is absolutely not
>>>> absolutely true.  Flipping one bit *could* be fatal to an executable,
>>>> or it could have little to no effect.  Theoretically, it could even
>>>> improve the program, though I don't recommend random bit-flipping as
>>>> any sort of bug-fix strategy.
>>>>
>>>> All this talk of obsolete formats reminded me that I have some old
>>>> Travan TR-1 backup tapes.  One is still in its wrapper, so I know that
>>>> has no value, two others are marked as full backups from 1998, and
>>>> another three are opened but unlabeled.  I have no idea what's on
>>>> these, other than whatever I felt 19 years ago was worth backing 
>>>> up.  I
>>>> also don't know where the drive is, if I still have it.  I just 
>>>> have to
>>>> assume that anything I haven't wanted in that long is probably not
>>>> worth much trouble trying to recover.  Each tape holds an amazing 
>>>> 400MB
>>>> (800MB compressed with their rather optimistic estimate of 
>>>> compression).
>>>>
>>>> I also recently brought back to life an old PC that uses EIDE drives.
>>>> My current desktop won't even take those, only having SATA connectors.
>>>> I have very limited options getting data from the one to the other.
>>>
>>> not really, just put a card in to give you ide ports, or use an IDE to
>>> SATA adapter. or you could use a docking station
>>> http://tinyurl.com/kwhx75u
>
> I do have an adapter, so I can plug in one EIDE drive at a time, and
> transfer whatever seems to be of value to the newer machine's drive, or
> to a separate backup.  That's probably what I'll do, though I also have
> a crossover cable, so with the right setup I could transfer between the
> machines.  I don't think any of this is worth the cost and trouble of
> getting a new controller card.
>
>>>> Here again the storage limits are laughable in today's terms.  The
>>>> biggest EIDE drive I have is 80GB,
>>>
>>> I have 120Gb, 80Gb, 40Gb, and even a 10GB. I also have a 25mb HD that
>>> still works!
>
> How is it worth running tiny hard drives 

I don't use them per se, I just have them! I have difficulty getting rid 
of things. I believe it's called hoarding. however, they are useful if I 
want to store files of a particular kind together for any reason, eg 
video clips. it's easy just to plug in that drive as I have bays set up 
in the PC for SATA and IDE drives. although, drives that small I would 
rarely use, and as you say below, I could just use a flash drive with 
files in folders. I guess technology has now overtaken me.

> when you can put it all on a
> flash drive for little cost, no moving parts, and easy connection to
> any modern machine?

I guess I just don't trust them too much. experience with eproms has 
taught me how easily you can lose all your data with no hope of recovery

>
>> I have two or three 40mb drives that still work. One MFM/RLL drive in a
>> portable that still works too but each time I fire it up I'm afraid it
>> will be it's last. Those old things don't fill you with much confidence
>> as they chug away.
>>
>> The dodgiest drive still in regular use is in an old Compaq Armada which
>> I use with my EPROMmer and for diagnostics on older vehicles.
>>
>> It's drive developed bad sectors 10+ years ago and I simply partitioned
>> them out as a temporary measure and it's remained that way since.
>
> That's another point against the old, small-capacity drives.  I was a
> bit relieved that all my old drives even run.  Once I get the good data
> off them, I'll probably clear them and either give or throw them away.

never had a drive fail. I've got an old Quantum fireball 500mb still 
going strong. ( ok, bring in the men in white coats now ) I guess a lot 
depends on how much drives are used tho

>
>>>> while I have a 256GB thumb drive.
>>>>
>>>> I also still have a few 3.5" floppies ("stiffies")
>>>
>>> none of that dirty talk here, thank you! lol.
>>>
>>>> , which I could read
>>>> on the old machine, and then transfer to the new if there's any value
>>>> to it.  That's a big "if".
>>>
>>> I still have a 3.5 floppy drive in the current machine. even have a
>>> 5.25" drive in one PC
>>>
>>
>> I have a separate machine for that which also has a 3.5" and 5.25"
>> floppy. I've used it to recover and write floppies for other 8 bit
>> computers (like a TRS-80 model 1 for instance).
>
> You wouldn't happen to have a paper tape reader as well, would you?
>
>>>>   Even all these old CDs I have for software
>>>> are of little likely value, since anything coming on a CD probably 
>>>> runs
>>>> on an obsolete OS.  There are a few backups mixed in with those, but
>>>> those are also likely worthless, as I'd copy from one hard drive to
>>>> another when upgrading.


-- 
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http://thereligionofpeace.com
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Thread

Re: VHS Tape Collectors felix <felix@real_felix.invalid> - 2017-03-20 13:42 +1100
  Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-03-20 11:03 +0800
    Re: VHS Tape Collectors BruceS <bruces42@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-20 14:18 -0600
      Re: VHS Tape Collectors not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2017-03-20 22:15 +0000
        Re: VHS Tape Collectors Lucifer Morningstar <Barry@saymyname.com> - 2017-03-21 10:09 +1100
          Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-03-21 08:51 +0800
            Re: VHS Tape Collectors Lucifer Morningstar <Barry@saymyname.com> - 2017-03-21 13:34 +1100
        Re: VHS Tape Collectors felix <felix@real_felix.invalid> - 2017-03-21 11:47 +1100
          Re: VHS Tape Collectors not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2017-03-22 22:21 +0000
      Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-03-21 06:47 +0800
        Re: VHS Tape Collectors felix <felix@real_felix.invalid> - 2017-03-21 15:24 +1100
          Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-03-21 14:10 +0800
            Re: VHS Tape Collectors BruceS <bruces42@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-21 10:17 -0600
              Re: VHS Tape Collectors Jeßus <j@j.net> - 2017-03-22 09:18 +1100
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-03-22 13:31 +0800
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors BruceS <bruces42@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-22 10:04 -0600
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors Jeßus <j@j.net> - 2017-03-23 06:30 +1100
              Re: VHS Tape Collectors keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-22 19:28 +1000
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors Trevor <trevor@home.net> - 2017-03-22 21:29 +1100
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-22 20:41 +1000
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors Trevor <trevor@home.net> - 2017-03-24 12:23 +1100
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-03-25 10:05 +0800
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2017-03-22 20:22 +0000
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-23 10:26 +1000
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-03-23 12:28 +0800
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-23 16:20 +1000
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-03-23 22:45 +0800
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2017-03-23 14:39 +0000
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-03-24 22:20 +0800
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2017-03-24 14:55 +0000
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-03-25 07:04 +0800
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2017-03-26 20:14 +0000
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-04-04 17:43 +0800
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors Peter Jason <pj@jostle.com> - 2017-04-05 07:44 +1000
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-04-05 08:07 +0800
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-04-05 14:26 +1000
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-04-05 14:05 +0800
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors felix <felix@real_felix.invalid> - 2017-04-05 19:34 +1000
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-04-05 21:20 +1000
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-04-05 21:19 +1000
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-25 12:26 +1000
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors "Blue Heeler" <woof@barque.org> - 2017-03-25 02:47 +0000
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-25 13:47 +1000
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors "Blue Heeler" <woof@barque.org> - 2017-03-25 03:56 +0000
                Re: VHS Tape Collectors keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-25 15:36 +1000
        Re: VHS Tape Collectors Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2017-03-22 20:09 +0000
          Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-03-23 12:38 +0800
            Re: VHS Tape Collectors Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2017-03-23 14:34 +0000
              Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-03-24 06:49 +0800
      Re: VHS Tape Collectors felix <felix@real_felix.invalid> - 2017-03-21 11:42 +1100
        Re: VHS Tape Collectors BruceS <bruces42@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-21 10:24 -0600
      Re: VHS Tape Collectors Trevor <trevor@home.net> - 2017-03-21 18:50 +1100
        Re: VHS Tape Collectors BruceS <bruces42@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-21 10:31 -0600
          Re: VHS Tape Collectors Clocky <notgonn@happen.com> - 2017-03-22 07:53 +0800

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