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Re: The joy of Democracy

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Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers, comp.os.linux.misc
Subject Re: The joy of Democracy
Date Fri, 25 Oct 2024 22:12:46 +0200
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References <pan$96411$d204da43$cc34bb91$1fe98651@linux.rocks> <mm96uk-us2.ln1@anthive.com> <v2%PO.149812$WtV9.44658@fx10.iad> <lnbfekF45jfU7@mid.individual.net> <GV8QO.86653$lm45.13011@fx05.iad> <ver62q$2oior$7@dont-email.me> <TR9QO.410409$WOde.107153@fx09.iad> <e73543b1-b850-963a-54c5-4535f303fae2@example.net> <644516764.751141153.105442.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> <652c95b8-cdfb-50ba-9632-e7cbeec5bf43@example.net> <vf5c7v$th0d$3@dont-email.me> <vf6fi6$13ctc$7@dont-email.me> <HGCRO.47719$rIH3.28956@fx40.iad> <c207aeff-272f-1dfd-95cc-bb22de13e4d2@example.net> <vf7p8c$1dpfh$1@dont-email.me> <8e3c519b-770e-e8e9-0d46-155863cf9e05@example.net> <VrURO.424001$FzW1.480@fx14.iad> <14bf8113-9c0c-f265-dd25-dddad24644f3@example.net> <DN8SO.564987$1m96.528590@fx15.iad> <2eb63125-729c-7fbf-21da-444f83fc279b@example.net> <mJxSO.730706$_o_3.225871@fx17.iad> <5bc5c422-00c0-04d0-364a-e98933fe035c@example.net> <vffodq$344r7$2@dont-email.me>
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Is the economy a zero sum game?

To determine whether the economy is a zero-sum game, we must first 
understand what a zero-sum game entails. In a zero-sum game, one party’s 
gain is exactly balanced by another party’s loss. This concept is often 
illustrated through examples like sports or simple resource distribution 
scenarios, where the total amount of resources (or points) remains 
constant.

Understanding Economic Growth

The economy, however, operates differently. It is not merely a static set 
of resources that are redistributed among participants; rather, it is 
dynamic and capable of growth. The economic “pie” can expand as innovation 
occurs and as goods and services become more efficient and available. For 
instance, advancements in technology can lead to increased productivity, 
allowing for more goods to be produced without necessarily increasing the 
input costs proportionately.

Historical Evidence Against Zero-Sum Thinking

Historically, there have been numerous instances where predictions based 
on zero-sum thinking have proven incorrect. For example, claims made in 
the 19th century suggested that once coal supplies were exhausted, society 
would regress to primitive living conditions. Similarly, forecasts from 
the mid-20th century predicted dire consequences due to overpopulation and 
resource depletion. These predictions failed to account for human 
ingenuity and technological advancements that have continually created new 
forms of wealth.

Current Economic Indicators

Today’s economic indicators support the notion that the economy is not a 
zero-sum game. Since 1848, real income per person has risen 
significantly—by anywhere from 2,500% to 5,000%. Furthermore, while global 
population has increased dramatically over time, the percentage of people 
living in extreme poverty has decreased from over 89% to less than 9%. If 
the economy were truly a zero-sum game, such improvements would not be 
feasible.

Innovation as a Driver of Wealth Creation

Wealth creation stems from innovation and entrepreneurship. When 
individuals or companies develop new products or improve existing 
processes, they create additional value that benefits society as a whole. 
For example, if an entrepreneur invents a new technology that enhances 
production efficiency in agriculture, this leads to greater food 
availability at lower prices—not just benefiting themselves but also 
consumers who gain access to more affordable food options.

Conclusion: The Economy Is Not Zero-Sum

In conclusion, while competition exists within various sectors of the 
economy—where one entity may gain at another’s expense—the overall 
economic landscape is not fixed but rather expansive due to continuous 
innovation and improvement in productivity. Therefore:

The economy is not a zero-sum game; it is capable of growth through 
innovation and improved efficiency in producing goods and services.


On Fri, 25 Oct 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 25/10/2024 09:59, D wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, 24 Oct 2024, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2024-10-23, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, 23 Oct 2024, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2024-10-23, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, 22 Oct 2024, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 2024-10-22, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 22 Oct 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> In that sense the companies themselves have gone 'socialist' in 
>>>>>>>>> that, like
>>>>>>>>> Marx, they regard economics as a zero sum game.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Incorrect. By design they do what they do, and whether the economy is
>>>>>>>> zero sum (it is not) or not, does not really apply. That is why 
>>>>>>>> todays
>>>>>>>> crypto-socialist government is so extremely dangerous. It subverts 
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> distorts the markets, just by existing.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> As opposed to large corporations subverting and distorting the 
>>>>>>> markets,
>>>>>>> as God intended.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> They do it with the help of the governments. By themselves, per
>>>>>> definition, they are not able to over time.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> That is, it isn't about creating more wealth, it's about who gets to 
>>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>>> what there is left.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> True.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I.e., a zero-sum game.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> No, it is not, and that is proven by economics. The proof is that we 
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> 8.2 billion people on the planet and we've never had it better.
>>> 
>>> FSVO "we".
>>> 
>>>>>> If economy was zero sum, we'd be dead by now.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Give it time...
>>>> 
>>>> Exactly. No proof, so far.
>>> 
>>> "So far, so good," the man falling past the 5th floor of the
>>> Empire State building was heard to say.
>> 
>> That's nonsense and you know it.
>
> Well no, it isn't.
> Civilisations have fallen through no apparent fault of their own.
>
> Egypt's soldiered on nearly 3000 years before vanishing under Rome and then 
> falling victim to Islam.
>
> But I reiterate, of course no economy is actually a zero sum game nor has 
> been since we invented agriculture.
>
> It is just that Marxism is steeped in the ethics of the hunter-gatherer 
> political structure (no one owns anything: All property is common) and 
> economics, and that *is* a zero sum game.  If you kill the game and pick the 
> fruit, the next door tribe can't.
>
> The fact that the conditions where all this worked ceased to exist 5000 years 
> ago doesn't deter the nostalgia of the True Marxist from trying to turn the 
> clock of civilisation back that far.
>
>
>

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The joy of FORTRAN Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2024-09-24 05:26 -0700
  Re: The joy of FORTRAN snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2024-09-24 14:11 +0100
    Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-24 15:28 +0100
      Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-24 18:24 +0000
        Re: The joy of FORTRAN scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-09-24 19:13 +0000
          Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-24 15:37 -0700
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-09-24 23:06 +0000
        Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-24 21:14 +0000
          Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-24 23:45 +0000
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-09-25 06:52 +0000
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-25 07:06 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-09-25 08:51 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-26 17:52 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-27 17:43 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2024-09-27 17:55 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN R Daneel Olivaw <Danny@hyperspace.vogon.gov> - 2024-09-27 19:58 +0200
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-27 20:38 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2024-09-28 11:35 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-28 10:54 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-09-28 20:13 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-28 10:54 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2024-09-28 11:34 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-09-27 20:56 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-27 23:18 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-bi5-this> - 2024-09-28 08:13 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-28 10:54 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2024-09-30 16:26 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-09-25 07:17 -1000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-09-25 21:10 +0100
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-09-25 08:00 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-09-25 15:12 +0000
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-26 17:51 -0700
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN moi <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2024-09-27 02:29 +0100
          Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-25 00:52 +0000
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-09-25 08:03 -0400
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-09-25 17:29 +0100
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-25 19:11 +0000
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-26 17:52 -0700
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2024-09-27 04:23 +0000
          Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-09-24 16:05 -1000
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-25 02:40 +0000
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bozo User <anthk@disroot.org> - 2024-10-11 14:49 +0000
          Re: The joy of FORTRAN Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-09-25 07:58 -0400
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-26 17:52 -0700
          Re: The joy of FORTRAN Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2024-09-27 19:29 +0100
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-27 23:25 +0000
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-28 10:54 -0700
        Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-24 15:37 -0700
        Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-24 23:42 +0000
        Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-09-25 17:22 +0000
          Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-25 21:23 +0000
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-09-25 21:40 +0000
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-09-25 21:50 +0000
      Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-24 15:36 -0700
        Re: The joy of FORTRAN Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2024-09-25 02:45 -0600
        Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-25 21:24 +0000
      Re: The joy of FORTRAN Woozy Song <suzyw0ng@outlook.com> - 2024-09-25 11:03 +0800
        Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-25 04:38 +0000
          Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-25 05:31 +0000
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-26 17:52 -0700
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2024-09-30 10:58 +0000
          Re: The joy of FORTRAN Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-09-25 08:06 -0400
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN R Daneel Olivaw <Danny@hyperspace.vogon.gov> - 2024-09-25 17:01 +0200
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-09-25 17:45 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-25 19:11 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN R Daneel Olivaw <Danny@hyperspace.vogon.gov> - 2024-09-25 21:30 +0200
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-09-25 15:03 +0000
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-09-25 07:31 -1000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2024-09-26 06:04 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-26 06:39 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-09-26 08:47 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-09-26 07:49 -1000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-26 20:48 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-26 22:36 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-26 23:07 +0000
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-26 01:32 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-09-26 08:21 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-nnv-this> - 2024-09-27 07:40 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-26 20:52 +0000
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-09-26 08:42 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-26 10:10 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-09-26 11:49 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-26 20:43 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2024-09-26 18:01 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-27 01:36 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-09-27 10:43 +0100
                Re: The joy of VAX Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-27 23:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of VAX Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-09-28 19:05 +0100
                Re: The joy of VAX Robert Marshall <spam@capuchin.co.uk> - 2024-09-29 08:35 +0100
                Re: The joy of VAX Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-09-29 07:56 +0000
                Re: The joy of VAX Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-29 13:15 -0700
                The joy of VAX C Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2024-09-28 12:27 -0700
                Re: The joy of VAX C The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-28 22:03 +0100
                Re: The joy of VAX C rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-29 02:53 +0000
                Re: The joy of VAX C Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-29 13:15 -0700
                Re: The joy of VAX C Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-29 23:10 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-26 17:52 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-27 01:39 +0000
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-26 17:52 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-09-27 14:18 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-28 10:29 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-09-27 09:55 -1000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-09-27 11:13 -1000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2024-09-28 12:30 -0700
          Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-09-25 08:34 -0700
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-09-25 09:07 -0700
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-09-25 10:05 -0700
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-09-25 10:19 -0700
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-25 21:30 +0000
            TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2024-09-25 15:18 -0400
              Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-29 01:44 -0400
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-29 07:50 +0100
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-29 07:06 +0000
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2024-09-29 06:55 -0700
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2024-09-29 09:08 -0700
                Re: Procedural, Functional, String [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-29 23:21 +0000
                Re: Procedural, Functional, String [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2024-09-29 16:25 -0700
                Re: Procedural, Functional, String [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] p.dean@invalid.net (Peter Dean) - 2024-09-29 23:36 +0000
                Re: Procedural, Functional, String [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2024-09-30 00:54 +0000
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-29 20:55 +0000
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-29 23:15 +0000
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-09-30 10:24 +0100
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 21:19 +0000
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2024-09-30 15:44 -0600
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 23:42 +0000
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-10-01 15:57 +0100
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-01 16:14 +0100
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-01 16:37 +0000
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-01 21:49 +0000
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-02 10:56 +0100
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-02 18:07 -0700
                Re: Recursion [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 01:22 +0000
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-01 21:48 +0000
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2024-10-03 03:04 -0600
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-03 18:35 +0000
                Re: C operator precedence rules Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 21:54 +0000
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-03 16:34 -0700
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-10-04 10:59 +0000
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-04 12:48 +0100
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 20:10 +0000
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-01 15:39 -0700
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-02 00:06 +0000
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-02 11:34 +0100
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2024-10-02 15:48 -0400
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-03 10:33 +0100
                Grace Hopper Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2024-10-03 10:35 -0700
                Re: Grace Hopper Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 22:19 +0000
                Re: Grace Hopper Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2024-10-04 17:17 -0400
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-02 11:30 +0100
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-10-03 08:59 +0100
                Re: Multiple Inheritance [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-01 21:47 +0000
                Re: Multiple Inheritance [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-10-03 08:58 +0100
                Re: Multiple Inheritance [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-03 15:34 +0000
                Re: Multiple Inheritance [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-03 21:52 +0000
                Re: Multiple Inheritance [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 03:46 +0000
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-09-30 11:09 -0700
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-09-30 13:52 -0700
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 21:27 +0000
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-09-30 15:00 -0700
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 23:21 +0000
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-09-30 16:27 -0700
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-01 13:43 +0100
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-01 07:58 -0700
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-01 16:15 +0100
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-01 21:51 +0000
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-01 14:59 -0700
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-01 22:17 +0000
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-01 16:07 -0700
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-02 00:54 +0000
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-23 03:15 -0400
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-23 07:43 -0700
                Re: The Joy Of Object-Orientation Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-23 21:23 +0000
                Re: The Joy Of Object-Orientation John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-23 14:40 -0700
                Re: The Joy Of Object-Orientation "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-23 21:13 -0400
                Re: The Joy Of Object-Orientation "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-24 02:38 -0400
                Re: The Joy Of Object-Orientation The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-24 12:27 +0100
                Re: The Joy Of Object-Orientation "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-24 21:10 -0400
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Bob <bobv@bananacorp.nl.invalid> - 2024-10-23 21:44 +0000
                Re: The Joy Of Python Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-24 00:42 +0000
                Re: The Joy Of Python Bob <bobv@bananacorp.nl.invalid> - 2024-10-24 11:51 +0000
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-01 07:57 -0700
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2024-10-03 00:17 +0000
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2024-09-30 21:22 -0300
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-01 01:31 +0000
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-01 01:38 +0000
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-01 07:43 -0700
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-09-30 10:19 +0100
                Re: TeX and Pascal [was Re: The joy of FORTRAN] moi <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2024-09-30 23:28 +0100
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-25 21:27 +0000
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-09-25 14:42 -0700
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-26 17:52 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-27 01:41 +0000
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-25 21:29 +0000
    Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-24 17:53 +0000
      Re: The joy of FORTRAN R Daneel Olivaw <Danny@hyperspace.vogon.gov> - 2024-09-24 20:01 +0200
        Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-24 15:36 -0700
          Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-25 00:52 +0000
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-25 04:45 +0000
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-09-25 17:39 +0100
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-09-25 07:13 -1000
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-25 19:11 +0000
          Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-25 11:34 +0100
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-09-25 08:08 -0400
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2024-09-25 20:47 +0000
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-26 17:52 -0700
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-27 01:43 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-27 17:43 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-27 23:30 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-28 02:20 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-28 02:22 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-28 07:42 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-28 07:37 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-09-28 07:07 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-28 19:36 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-28 22:04 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-09-28 21:20 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-28 22:28 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-29 03:11 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-29 07:22 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-29 19:56 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-09-30 10:01 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-30 18:39 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-09-30 11:15 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-01 13:45 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-01 08:02 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-30 14:19 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-29 04:26 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-29 05:17 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-30 05:46 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 05:53 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-30 14:19 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-30 13:17 +0100
                Re: The joy of ALGOL-like languages Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 21:37 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-30 14:19 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 23:25 +0000
                Re: stacks are not hard, The joy of FORTRAN-like languages John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-10-04 03:49 +0000
                Re: stacks are not hard, The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 03:51 +0000
                Re: stacks are not hard, The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-10-04 17:07 -1000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-29 07:26 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-29 13:15 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-30 13:11 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-30 14:19 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2024-09-30 16:51 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-09-30 20:58 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 21:33 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2024-09-30 19:03 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2024-10-01 16:53 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-01 21:53 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2024-10-02 15:33 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-02 22:09 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2024-10-01 16:39 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-10-01 23:05 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2024-10-02 15:39 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-10-02 20:22 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-09-30 23:10 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2024-10-01 17:36 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages geodandw <geodandw@gmail.com> - 2024-09-28 17:41 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2024-09-28 21:44 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-29 07:14 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-29 07:06 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages geodandw <geodandw@gmail.com> - 2024-09-29 02:57 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-29 08:34 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-29 19:39 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-29 23:25 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2024-09-28 15:17 -0700
                7-bit encodings (was: Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-29 00:36 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-29 03:15 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-29 07:16 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-29 19:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-29 23:24 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-09-30 16:31 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-30 18:12 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2024-09-30 21:26 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-29 13:15 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN-like languages The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-30 13:10 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-29 03:01 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-09-29 07:58 +0000
                Into the woods of business Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2024-09-29 07:11 -0700
                Re: Into the woods of business vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2024-09-29 20:02 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-29 20:09 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-28 10:29 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-28 21:41 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-29 04:26 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-29 05:26 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-30 05:46 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 05:54 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-30 14:19 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 23:26 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Harold Stevens <wookie@aspen.localdomain> - 2024-10-01 03:52 -0500
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2024-10-01 15:49 -0600
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Harold Stevens <wookie@aspen.localdomain> - 2024-10-01 18:04 -0500
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2024-10-02 03:12 -0600
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-29 07:27 +0100
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2024-09-30 12:35 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-30 14:26 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-30 19:53 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 21:47 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-01 18:39 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-01 21:55 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 21:45 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2024-10-01 17:40 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-30 14:19 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-30 21:44 +0000
        Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-24 23:31 +0000
      Re: The joy of FORTRAN scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-09-24 19:11 +0000
        Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-24 20:22 +0100
    Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-24 21:09 +0000
      Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-24 23:49 +0000
    Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-09-24 22:05 +0000
      Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-24 15:37 -0700
    Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2024-09-24 17:54 -0700
      Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-25 01:46 +0000
      Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2024-09-25 15:40 +0100
        Re: The joy of FORTRAN R Daneel Olivaw <Danny@hyperspace.vogon.gov> - 2024-09-25 16:59 +0200
          Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-26 17:52 -0700
        Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2024-09-25 10:45 -0700
      Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-25 19:11 +0000
  Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-09-24 13:21 +0000
    Re: The joy of FORTRAN cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-09-24 17:12 +0000
      Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-09-24 22:05 +0000
        Re: The joy of FORTRAN cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-09-25 13:01 +0000
          Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-09-25 15:13 +0000
  Re: The joy of FORTRAN R Daneel Olivaw <Danny@hyperspace.vogon.gov> - 2024-09-24 19:55 +0200
  Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-24 15:36 -0700
  Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-25 02:42 -0400
    Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-25 06:47 +0000
      Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-09-25 07:14 +0000
    Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-25 19:11 +0000
      Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-09-25 23:16 -0400
        Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-26 16:18 +0000
          Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-26 20:51 +0000
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-09-27 11:32 +0100
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-27 12:10 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2024-09-27 11:52 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-09-27 14:17 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-09-28 09:33 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-09-28 09:41 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-09-29 09:19 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN R Daneel Olivaw <Danny@hyperspace.vogon.gov> - 2024-09-29 11:23 +0200
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-09-29 10:18 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN R Daneel Olivaw <Danny@hyperspace.vogon.gov> - 2024-09-29 16:47 +0200
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-29 13:15 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-09-29 10:10 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-29 23:37 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2024-10-08 19:53 -0600
                Re: The joy of Python Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-09 05:46 +0000
                Re: The joy of Python p.dean@invalid.net (Peter Dean) - 2024-10-09 07:12 +0000
                Re: The joy of Python "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-10-09 09:27 +0100
                Re: The joy of Python lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2024-10-09 21:42 -0600
                Re: The joy of Python p.dean@invalid.net (Peter Dean) - 2024-10-10 04:39 +0000
                Re: The joy of perl p.dean@invalid.net (Peter Dean) - 2024-10-09 14:01 +0000
                Re: The joy of awk p.dean@invalid.net (Peter Dean) - 2024-10-09 15:32 +0000
                Re: The joy of awk "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-10-11 09:25 +0100
                Re: The joy of awk John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-11 07:55 -0700
                Re: The joy of awk Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-11 17:59 +0000
                Re: The joy of perl Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-10 07:48 +0000
                Re: The joy of perl Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2024-10-10 13:21 +0100
                Re: The joy of perl cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2024-10-10 12:49 +0000
                Re: The joy of perl Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2024-10-10 15:24 +0100
                Re: The joy of perl p.dean@invalid.net (Peter Dean) - 2024-10-10 20:27 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-27 23:52 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-09-27 14:15 +0000
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-09-27 14:13 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-09-27 22:00 +0200
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-27 20:38 +0000
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-27 23:33 +0000
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-09-28 10:29 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-09-28 20:17 +0000
            Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-04 01:19 -0400
              Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 05:48 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-04 02:03 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 06:56 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 07:40 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 20:13 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-04 22:47 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-05 06:12 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-05 23:20 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-06 03:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2024-10-06 16:06 -0600
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-07 03:02 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTRAN "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-20 00:13 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTH p.dean@invalid.net (Peter Dean) - 2024-10-20 06:22 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-20 07:03 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) p.dean@invalid.net (Peter Dean) - 2024-10-20 07:31 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-20 19:00 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-20 21:37 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-21 01:33 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-21 03:30 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-21 06:51 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-21 08:41 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-21 07:55 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-21 20:53 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-21 15:16 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-21 23:12 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-22 00:29 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-22 01:11 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-22 04:43 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-22 04:46 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-22 09:59 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-22 20:52 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-22 14:48 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-22 22:23 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-22 15:36 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) magardner2010 <magardner2010@gmail.com> - 2024-10-23 14:33 +0300
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-23 21:00 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) magardner2010 <magardner2010@gmail.com> - 2024-10-24 06:45 +0300
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-24 03:54 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-24 02:03 -0400
                Re: The joy of Ada Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-24 06:36 +0000
                Re: The joy of Ada "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-24 03:11 -0400
                Re: The joy of Ada Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-24 20:50 +0000
                Re: The joy of Ada "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-24 21:23 -0400
                Re: The joy of Ada Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-25 17:32 +0000
                Re: The joy of Ada rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-25 19:46 +0000
                Re: The joy of SQL Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-25 22:41 +0000
                Re: The joy of SQL "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-25 21:58 -0400
                Re: The joy of SQL Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-26 02:40 +0000
                Re: The joy of SQL rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-26 06:02 +0000
                Re: The joy of SQL p.dean@invalid.net (Peter Dean) - 2024-10-26 16:35 +0000
                Re: The joy of SQL p.dean@invalid.net (Peter Dean) - 2024-10-26 16:52 +0000
                Re: The joy of SQL rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-26 05:53 +0000
                Re: The joy of SQL Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-26 07:18 +0000
                Re: The joy of SQL John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-28 08:04 -0700
                Re: The joy of SQL Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-10-28 11:33 -0400
                Re: The joy of SQL "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-10-28 17:59 +0000
                Re: The joy of SQL Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-10-28 14:14 -0400
                Re: The joy of SQL Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-28 21:24 +0000
                Re: The joy of SQL antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2024-10-29 01:11 +0000
                Re: The joy of SQL Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-29 05:21 +0000
                Re: The joy of SQL rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-29 02:10 +0000
                Re: The joy of SQL The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-26 11:07 +0100
                Re: The joy of SQL Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-10-26 16:44 +0000
                Re: The joy of SQL antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2024-10-26 18:48 +0000
                Re: The joy of SQL The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-27 09:52 +0000
                Re: The joy of SQL Mister Johnson <root@example.net> - 2024-10-27 13:00 +0000
                Re: The joy of SQL The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-27 13:30 +0000
                Re: The joy of SQL rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-27 17:40 +0000
                Re: The joy of SQL John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-10-27 18:38 +0000
                Re: The joy of SQL Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-28 02:42 +0000
                Re: The joy of SQL The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-27 09:32 +0000
                Re: The joy of SQL rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-27 17:35 +0000
                Re: The joy of Ada Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-26 04:38 +0000
                Re: The joy of Ada Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-26 05:39 +0000
                Re: The joy of Ada The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-26 11:08 +0100
                Re: The joy of Ada Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-26 18:01 +0000
                Re: The joy of Linux Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-26 20:26 +0000
                Re: The joy of Ada "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-25 21:40 -0400
                Re: The joy of Ada Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-26 04:38 +0000
                Re: The joy of Ada rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-26 06:27 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) moi <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2024-10-24 14:52 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-24 14:46 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) magardner2010 <magardner2010@gmail.com> - 2024-10-25 19:55 +0300
                Re: The joy of strong typing magardner2010 <magardner2010@gmail.com> - 2024-10-24 10:56 +0300
                Re: The joy of Python Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-24 20:55 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-24 17:13 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-25 03:24 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-22 16:07 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-22 23:37 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-23 08:04 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-23 20:57 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-23 14:36 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-23 23:02 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-24 17:13 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-25 01:32 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-25 01:50 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-25 17:32 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2024-10-25 17:16 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-25 22:39 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-25 18:48 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-26 04:38 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-10-25 22:59 -1000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-10-26 09:10 -1000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2024-10-26 12:35 -1000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-25 18:48 -0700
                Re: Little old machines, The joy of FORTH (not) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2024-10-26 02:18 +0000
                Re: Little old machines, The joy of FORTH (not) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-26 13:25 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2024-10-26 02:12 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2024-10-25 18:48 -0700
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-26 06:11 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-26 11:05 +0100
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2024-10-25 11:01 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2024-10-24 00:10 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-24 00:44 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-24 00:55 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-24 03:53 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-24 04:50 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-21 22:50 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2024-10-23 22:25 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-24 00:46 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-23 22:13 -0400
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-24 03:55 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-24 05:07 +0000
                Re: The joy of FORTH (not) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-24 08:03 -0700
                Re: The joy of Stick-shifts Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-10-24 23:04 +0000
                Re: The joy of Stick-shifts Thomas Prufer <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> - 2024-10-25 08:37 +0200
                Re: The joy of Stick-shifts Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-10-25 07:07 -0400
                Re: The joy of Stick-shifts David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2024-10-25 13:14 +0100
                Re: The joy of Stick-shifts Thomas Prufer <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> - 2024-10-25 15:58 +0200
                Re: The joy of Stick-shifts David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2024-10-25 15:41 +0100
                Re: The joy of Stick-shifts scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2024-10-25 14:02 +0000

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