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Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money

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On Mon, Jun 03, 2019 at 08:42:02PM -0400, Sam Hartman wrote:
> >>>>> "Gunnar" == Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@debian.org> writes:
> 
>     Gunnar> I am aware your example is just an example - But don't you
>     Gunnar> think that following through with this would have a sad
>     Gunnar> effect on the www team: It would be equivalent to tell them,
>     Gunnar> "thanks for your work for so many years, but we have decided
>     Gunnar> it's a weak spot in the project, and we'd be much better off
>     Gunnar> if somebody else were to do it".
> 
> If that were there reaction  we shouldn't do it.
> 
> I was imagining that if we went to www, treasurer, or a couple of other
> teams and said things like
> "Hey, from your last couple of reports you don't seem to be able to get
> all the things done you want to dget done.  We don't seem to get you
> volunteers, but would you find it useful to have some money to contract
> for some of those items?  Because this is new, we'll help you out if you
> don't have experience managing a contract well."
> 
> I'd be really surprised if their reaction was to feel their work was not
> valued if presented like that.
> And if so, we apologize and move on.

To me, a model that could work is a model of grants, like the Perl
Foundations does.

https://www.perlfoundation.org/grants-committee1.html
https://www.perlfoundation.org/grant-ideas.html
https://www.perlfoundation.org/how-to-write-a-proposal.html

So people would be paid for fixed, delimited period, to achieve a
specific goal.

On the other hand, they would would have to report on their progress
periodically, and would be held accountable with regards to what they
proposed to work on, and they could be told what to work on or how to do
the work. If they didn't reasonably achieve the goals they set
themselves, that would be taken into consideration when evaluating
future grant proposals from them.

This makes that work a bit different from the volunteer work we all do
in Debian, where our only obligation -- if it goes that far -- is to not
block others from doing their own volunteer work.

Coming back to the www team example, one way of mitigating, or maybe
even elimitating, such negative reactions would be to encode in the
evulation criteria for grant proposals that any proposal that is tightly
linked to the work of an existing Debian team should be signed-off by
that team, or require some member of the team to volunteer to act as
"manager" for that grant before it is approved, or give that team veto
power over the acceptance of the grant. i.e. such grant would only be
accepted if the "affected" Debian team is happy with it.

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Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-05-29 13:50 +0200
  Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2019-05-31 22:40 +0200
    Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Luca Filipozzi <lfilipoz@debian.org> - 2019-05-31 23:10 +0200
      Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Luca Filipozzi <lfilipoz@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 01:00 +0200
        Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2019-06-01 01:00 +0200
          Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Luca Filipozzi <lfilipoz@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 01:10 +0200
      Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 01:00 +0200
      Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> - 2019-06-01 23:00 +0200
        Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2019-06-02 00:20 +0200
      Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> - 2019-06-02 15:50 +0200
    Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-05-31 23:40 +0200
      Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 00:30 +0200
        Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 01:10 +0200
          Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2019-06-01 01:20 +0200
          Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Ximin Luo <infinity0@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 04:50 +0200
            Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 05:10 +0200
              Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Ximin Luo <infinity0@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 06:00 +0200
                Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 06:20 +0200
                Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Ondřej Surý <ondrej@sury.org> - 2019-06-01 09:20 +0200
              Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Ximin Luo <infinity0@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 06:20 +0200
              Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> - 2019-06-01 13:00 +0200
                Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Luca Filipozzi <lfilipoz@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 17:40 +0200
                Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2019-06-01 18:20 +0200
                Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> - 2019-06-02 08:40 +0200
          Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Eldon Koyle <ekoyle@gmail.com> - 2019-06-01 07:50 +0200
            Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 11:50 +0200
          Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Ondřej Surý <ondrej@sury.org> - 2019-06-01 09:00 +0200
            Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 15:10 +0200
              Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@debian.org> - 2019-06-04 02:40 +0200
                Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-06-04 02:50 +0200
                Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Antonio Terceiro <terceiro@debian.org> - 2019-06-04 14:30 +0200
                Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Sam Hartman <leader@debian.org> - 2019-06-14 12:40 +0200
                Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Sam Hartman <leader@debian.org> - 2019-06-15 15:10 +0200
                Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@debian.org> - 2019-06-04 16:30 +0200
                Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2019-06-05 23:40 +0200
          Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 11:40 +0200
            Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Judit Foglszinger <fgrfgr@freenet.de> - 2019-06-01 12:50 +0200
            Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 20:00 +0200
              Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Jonathan Carter <jcc@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 20:10 +0200
                Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 20:20 +0200
        Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 15:10 +0200
          Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 16:40 +0200

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