Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money

From	Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.project
Subject	Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money
Date	2019-06-01 18:20 +0200
Message-ID	<y4eTD-2p5-1@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
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On Sat, Jun 01, 2019 at 12:29:04PM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
>]] Russ Allbery 
>
>> These dynamics change a *lot* when the money is coming from
>> the project itself.  That money is special; it's not just one more company
>> or foundation or whatnot that is providing resources to aid in a general
>> volunteer project.  It becomes a loaded statement about what work the
>> project considers the most important and, worse, *who* the project
>> considers important to do that work.
>
>This is a hugely important point: we're already seeing conflicts where
>people conflate the paid-for LTS effort with other team's priorities.
>If we move that funding closer to Debian, we're effectively saying that
>«this funded effort is important and all relevant teams, volunteer or
>not should support it», rather than trusting teams to act in the
>currently more creative anarchic way.  Adding more tension internally in
>the project, which I think spending money in this way will do, is a bad
>idea.

That's definitely my concern, too. I don't want to have to consider
funding when working on stuff for fun, and I also don't really want to
reorganise how things are done to accommodate others who do.

>> Particularly now that my free time is rarer and more precious to me,
>> doing unpaid work for an organization that also has paid staff is
>> hugely demotivating.  It's entirely plausible that paying for
>> resources would mean that Debian would end up with *less* resources
>> than we have now, if other volunteers feel the same way.
>
>Well said, and I feel the same way.

+1

Having said both of these, I think there *are* reasonable places to
spend money that shouldn't affect us so much. The areas in question
are those where we struggle to find any/sufficient volunteer effort to
do what we need - bureaucracy etc. Volunteer book-keepers are few and
far between, IME.

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.                                steve@einval.com
"When C++ is your hammer, everything looks like a thumb." -- Steven M. Haflich

Thread

Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-05-29 13:50 +0200
  Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2019-05-31 22:40 +0200
    Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Luca Filipozzi <lfilipoz@debian.org> - 2019-05-31 23:10 +0200
      Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Luca Filipozzi <lfilipoz@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 01:00 +0200
        Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2019-06-01 01:00 +0200
          Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Luca Filipozzi <lfilipoz@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 01:10 +0200
      Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 01:00 +0200
      Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> - 2019-06-01 23:00 +0200
        Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2019-06-02 00:20 +0200
      Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> - 2019-06-02 15:50 +0200
    Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-05-31 23:40 +0200
      Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 00:30 +0200
        Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 01:10 +0200
          Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2019-06-01 01:20 +0200
          Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Ximin Luo <infinity0@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 04:50 +0200
            Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 05:10 +0200
              Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Ximin Luo <infinity0@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 06:00 +0200
                Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 06:20 +0200
                Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Ondřej Surý <ondrej@sury.org> - 2019-06-01 09:20 +0200
              Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Ximin Luo <infinity0@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 06:20 +0200
              Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> - 2019-06-01 13:00 +0200
                Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Luca Filipozzi <lfilipoz@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 17:40 +0200
                Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2019-06-01 18:20 +0200
                Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> - 2019-06-02 08:40 +0200
          Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Eldon Koyle <ekoyle@gmail.com> - 2019-06-01 07:50 +0200
            Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 11:50 +0200
          Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Ondřej Surý <ondrej@sury.org> - 2019-06-01 09:00 +0200
            Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 15:10 +0200
              Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@debian.org> - 2019-06-04 02:40 +0200
                Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-06-04 02:50 +0200
                Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Antonio Terceiro <terceiro@debian.org> - 2019-06-04 14:30 +0200
                Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Sam Hartman <leader@debian.org> - 2019-06-14 12:40 +0200
                Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Sam Hartman <leader@debian.org> - 2019-06-15 15:10 +0200
                Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Gunnar Wolf <gwolf@debian.org> - 2019-06-04 16:30 +0200
                Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2019-06-05 23:40 +0200
          Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 11:40 +0200
            Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Judit Foglszinger <fgrfgr@freenet.de> - 2019-06-01 12:50 +0200
            Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 20:00 +0200
              Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Jonathan Carter <jcc@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 20:10 +0200
                Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 20:20 +0200
        Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 15:10 +0200
          Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 16:40 +0200

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